Reposting this because I posted it at the very end of the last open thread and hence, I think, missed the window for it to get much attention:
I’m vegetarian and currently ordering some dietary supplements to help, erm, supplement any possible deficits in my diet. For now, I’m getting B12, iron, and creatine. Two questions:
Are there any important ones that I’ve missed? (Other things I’ve heard mentioned but of whose importance and effectiveness I’m not sure: zinc, taurine, carnitine, carnosine. Convince me!)
Of the ones I’ve mentioned, how much should I be taking? In particular, all the information I could find on creatine was for bodybuilders trying to develop muscle mass. I did manage to find that the average daily turnover/usage of creatine for an adult male (which I happen to be) is ~2 grams/day—is this how much I should be taking?
I currently supplement with a multivitamin (this one—Hair, Skin and Nails), creatine and occasionally Coenzyme Q-10 and choline, You didn’t mention the last two but I have subjectively felt they increase alertness. I (hopefully) get my Omega-3/6 fatty acids from cooking oil. I had a basic panel done and found I was deficient in Calcium (probably due to my specific diet, but it is worth mentioning) and B12. So, I supplement for Calcium too.
I do regular exercise (usually bodyweight and dumbbells) and I had disappointing results without whey protein and creatine supplementation. Excessive amounts of creatine (look up “loading”) is recommended for bodybuilders but 5g/day is recommended for vegetarians. See gwern’s review and the examine.com review.. The examine.com review mentions that the fear of this compound is irrational and recommends 5g a day for everyone, pointing out that creatine would have been labeled a vitamin if it wasn’t produced in the body. (Excessive creatine causes stomach upsets but I wasn’t able to find a value at which this happens, and I’ve never experienced this myself).
I also take a fiber supplement, Metamucil. This one isn’t vegetarian-specific, but I highly recommend it.
I haven’t put sufficient effort into identifying healthy cooking oils. I currently use Crisco’s Blended Oil supplemented with Omega-3. The question is if it is supplemented in the right amount, and that information is not provided.
Animal fats are low in Omega-6 but I think the Omega-3:6 ratio is a problem for meat-eaters too.
I’m a vegetarian and I looked into this stuff a while back. The Examine.com page What beneficial compounds are primarily found in animal products? is a useful reference with sources and includes the ones you wrote above. An older page with some references is this one.
Thanks, this looks good. The sort of thing I was after.
I had a basic panel done
I’ve never heard this expression! I wonder whether that’s just transatlantic terminology variation. Will look into whether I can get this on the NHS.
Excessive amounts of creatine (look up “loading”) is recommended for bodybuilders but 5g/day is recommended for vegetarians. See gwern’s review and the examine.com review.. The examine.com review mentions that the fear of this compound is irrational and recommends 5g a day for everyone, pointing out that creatine would have been labeled a vitamin if it wasn’t produced in the body.
I have been vegetarian for three years, and haven’t taken any supplements consistently throughout that period of time. The last time I had a blood panel done, I didn’t have any mineral deficiencies, at least. I am by no means against taking supplements, but my impression is that they aren’t fully necessary for vegetarians who have a well-balanced diet.
I did take B12 for a few months when I was experimenting with reducing my intake of eggs and milk, though I eventually decided that I really liked eggs and milk, and consequently stopped taking B12. I’ve recently started taking CoQ10 because RomeoStevens advocated doing so here.
In the past couple of years, I have considered becoming flexitarian (i.e. 98% vegetarian) or pescatarian, mostly for convenience and health reasons, respectively, though I’ve elected to stay vegetarian for now. This is partly because I’m used to being vegetarian, partly because I’ve accidentally built vegetarianism into my self-identity, and partly because of the normal reasons people give for being vegetarian (health, environmental, and compassion-towards-animals type reasons).
Added 6/29/2015: Apparently, I haven’t been getting enough fiber for at least the last couple of months, but that is due to me being lazy about my diet, rather than any shortcoming of vegetarianism.
Vitamin K2. Vitamin K1 is produced by plants, and K2 is produced by animals and bacteria. They have very different functions in the human body, and you need them both. Supplements and fortified food are almost always K1, unless you look for K2 specifically.
Vitamin K2 is necessary for some proteins which modulate calcium in your body. Supplementing it has been found to protect both against osteoporosis and heart/artery calcification.
I know plenty of LW people are interested in nutrition; it’s within the realms of possibility that one of them might know enough about what I’m asking to be able to give me a quick summary of what I’m after. As for asking a dietician, I’ve never met one and wouldn’t know how to go about getting hold of one to ask. (I’m also not totally sure I’d trust J. Random Dietician to have a good understanding of things like what counts as good evidence for or against a proposition. Nutrition is a field in which it’s notoriously difficult to prove anything.)
There are many other vegetarians; this seems like it should be a solved problem.
Well, erm, yes, that’s why I’m asking about it. (I don’t go around making posts asking for proofs that P=NP, for example.)
A dietician can get licensed with just a bachelor’s degree in nutrition. A well-informed layman will often have more informed views on the issue. Also, communities like this will select against bad information. However, a fitness forum that also has a commitment to rejecting errors will have even better answers as they will specialize in this area.
Might be uaeful to enter your typical intake on cron-o-meter and check for deficiencies. If I had to guess, you might be low on choline, but you shouldn’t supplement based on my wild guess. :)
I’m currently a vegetarian and have been for the past three years, before which the only meat I consumed was poultry and fish. I’ve been reading a lot about the cognitive benefits of consuming fish (in particular, the EPA/DHA fatty acids); unless I’m mistaken (please tell me if I am), EPA and DHA cannot be obtained from vegetables alone. ALA can be obtained from seaweed, and while our bodies convert ALA into EPA, we do it very slowly and inefficiently, and ALA wouldn’t give us any DHA.
I looked into fish oil pills. Apparently pills contain much less EPA/DHA than fish meat does, and it’s more cost-effective to eat fish (depending on which species, of course)… and based on other research, I’d expect that our body would extract more fatty acids from a fillet than from a pill with the same quantity of acids.
I still have a visceral (moral?) opposition to eating fish and supporting horrendous fishing practices, and I worry about where fish I might be eating would come from. If it’s coming from the equivalent of a factory farm, then I don’t want to eat it. On that point, I’ve read many articles suggesting that extracting fish oil harms certain species of fish.
Ideally there would be a vegetarian, eco-friendly, and health-friendly source of EPA/DHA. Is there?
In the meanwhile, I will try fish again and see if it has any noticeable effect on me. I’ll continue to investigate whether vegetarian or eco-friendly sources of EPA/DHA exist, especially if I notice any positive effects from eating fish.
And, the undermining question: does not having any EPA/DHA really matter? (I think it does, since it apparently boosts cognitive function, and I want my brain to operate at its maximum potential; but maybe I’m wrong.)
I’m in the same boat as you with regards to whether EPA/DHA has a bigger effect than ALA, but I was convinced enough to try to find some when I became vegetarian last year.
If you google “algal dha together” you’ll find what I’m taking—meeting your criteria of vegetarian (vegan), eco-friendly and health-friendly (with aforementioned uncertainty)
ALA can also be found in flaxseed, soy/tofu, walnut and pumpkin, so you needn’t stick to seaweed if you only want ALA.
I once did a 3-day analysis of all foods consumed, and found I was within optimal limits on just about everything. I was high on salt and low on manganese. It’s quite possible to get everything you need using a vegetarian diet, and your particular needs will be unique to you.
Reposting this because I posted it at the very end of the last open thread and hence, I think, missed the window for it to get much attention:
I’m vegetarian and currently ordering some dietary supplements to help, erm, supplement any possible deficits in my diet. For now, I’m getting B12, iron, and creatine. Two questions:
Are there any important ones that I’ve missed? (Other things I’ve heard mentioned but of whose importance and effectiveness I’m not sure: zinc, taurine, carnitine, carnosine. Convince me!)
Of the ones I’ve mentioned, how much should I be taking? In particular, all the information I could find on creatine was for bodybuilders trying to develop muscle mass. I did manage to find that the average daily turnover/usage of creatine for an adult male (which I happen to be) is ~2 grams/day—is this how much I should be taking?
I’m a vegetarian and I looked into this stuff a while back. The Examine.com page What beneficial compounds are primarily found in animal products? is a useful reference with sources and includes the ones you wrote above. An older page with some references is this one.
I currently supplement with a multivitamin (this one—Hair, Skin and Nails), creatine and occasionally Coenzyme Q-10 and choline, You didn’t mention the last two but I have subjectively felt they increase alertness. I (hopefully) get my Omega-3/6 fatty acids from cooking oil. I had a basic panel done and found I was deficient in Calcium (probably due to my specific diet, but it is worth mentioning) and B12. So, I supplement for Calcium too.
I do regular exercise (usually bodyweight and dumbbells) and I had disappointing results without whey protein and creatine supplementation. Excessive amounts of creatine (look up “loading”) is recommended for bodybuilders but 5g/day is recommended for vegetarians. See gwern’s review and the examine.com review.. The examine.com review mentions that the fear of this compound is irrational and recommends 5g a day for everyone, pointing out that creatine would have been labeled a vitamin if it wasn’t produced in the body. (Excessive creatine causes stomach upsets but I wasn’t able to find a value at which this happens, and I’ve never experienced this myself).
I also take a fiber supplement, Metamucil. This one isn’t vegetarian-specific, but I highly recommend it.
From cooking oil you get too much Omega-6 and not enough Omega-3.
I haven’t put sufficient effort into identifying healthy cooking oils. I currently use Crisco’s Blended Oil supplemented with Omega-3. The question is if it is supplemented in the right amount, and that information is not provided.
Animal fats are low in Omega-6 but I think the Omega-3:6 ratio is a problem for meat-eaters too.
Thanks, this looks good. The sort of thing I was after.
I’ve never heard this expression! I wonder whether that’s just transatlantic terminology variation. Will look into whether I can get this on the NHS.
Perfect; thanks.
I have been vegetarian for three years, and haven’t taken any supplements consistently throughout that period of time. The last time I had a blood panel done, I didn’t have any mineral deficiencies, at least. I am by no means against taking supplements, but my impression is that they aren’t fully necessary for vegetarians who have a well-balanced diet.
I did take B12 for a few months when I was experimenting with reducing my intake of eggs and milk, though I eventually decided that I really liked eggs and milk, and consequently stopped taking B12. I’ve recently started taking CoQ10 because RomeoStevens advocated doing so here.
In the past couple of years, I have considered becoming flexitarian (i.e. 98% vegetarian) or pescatarian, mostly for convenience and health reasons, respectively, though I’ve elected to stay vegetarian for now. This is partly because I’m used to being vegetarian, partly because I’ve accidentally built vegetarianism into my self-identity, and partly because of the normal reasons people give for being vegetarian (health, environmental, and compassion-towards-animals type reasons).
Added 6/29/2015: Apparently, I haven’t been getting enough fiber for at least the last couple of months, but that is due to me being lazy about my diet, rather than any shortcoming of vegetarianism.
You might consider the vegetarian case for eating bivalves It’s a way of getting the benefits of pescetarianism with less moral uncertainty issues.
Yes, as of a few months ago when I researched the issue, I am OK with eating bivalves. I just haven’t gotten around to doing so yet.
Vitamin K2. Vitamin K1 is produced by plants, and K2 is produced by animals and bacteria. They have very different functions in the human body, and you need them both. Supplements and fortified food are almost always K1, unless you look for K2 specifically.
Vitamin K2 is necessary for some proteins which modulate calcium in your body. Supplementing it has been found to protect both against osteoporosis and heart/artery calcification.
You should ask a dietician, not us.
There are many other vegetarians; this seems like it should be a solved problem.
I know plenty of LW people are interested in nutrition; it’s within the realms of possibility that one of them might know enough about what I’m asking to be able to give me a quick summary of what I’m after. As for asking a dietician, I’ve never met one and wouldn’t know how to go about getting hold of one to ask. (I’m also not totally sure I’d trust J. Random Dietician to have a good understanding of things like what counts as good evidence for or against a proposition. Nutrition is a field in which it’s notoriously difficult to prove anything.)
Well, erm, yes, that’s why I’m asking about it. (I don’t go around making posts asking for proofs that P=NP, for example.)
I disagree about asking a dietician and not LW.
Can you expand on your reasoning?
FrameBenignly’s comment reflects my opinion well
A dietician can get licensed with just a bachelor’s degree in nutrition. A well-informed layman will often have more informed views on the issue. Also, communities like this will select against bad information. However, a fitness forum that also has a commitment to rejecting errors will have even better answers as they will specialize in this area.
Might be uaeful to enter your typical intake on cron-o-meter and check for deficiencies. If I had to guess, you might be low on choline, but you shouldn’t supplement based on my wild guess. :)
To piggyback on this:
I’m currently a vegetarian and have been for the past three years, before which the only meat I consumed was poultry and fish. I’ve been reading a lot about the cognitive benefits of consuming fish (in particular, the EPA/DHA fatty acids); unless I’m mistaken (please tell me if I am), EPA and DHA cannot be obtained from vegetables alone. ALA can be obtained from seaweed, and while our bodies convert ALA into EPA, we do it very slowly and inefficiently, and ALA wouldn’t give us any DHA.
I looked into fish oil pills. Apparently pills contain much less EPA/DHA than fish meat does, and it’s more cost-effective to eat fish (depending on which species, of course)… and based on other research, I’d expect that our body would extract more fatty acids from a fillet than from a pill with the same quantity of acids.
I still have a visceral (moral?) opposition to eating fish and supporting horrendous fishing practices, and I worry about where fish I might be eating would come from. If it’s coming from the equivalent of a factory farm, then I don’t want to eat it. On that point, I’ve read many articles suggesting that extracting fish oil harms certain species of fish.
Ideally there would be a vegetarian, eco-friendly, and health-friendly source of EPA/DHA. Is there?
In the meanwhile, I will try fish again and see if it has any noticeable effect on me. I’ll continue to investigate whether vegetarian or eco-friendly sources of EPA/DHA exist, especially if I notice any positive effects from eating fish.
And, the undermining question: does not having any EPA/DHA really matter? (I think it does, since it apparently boosts cognitive function, and I want my brain to operate at its maximum potential; but maybe I’m wrong.)
I’m in the same boat as you with regards to whether EPA/DHA has a bigger effect than ALA, but I was convinced enough to try to find some when I became vegetarian last year.
If you google “algal dha together” you’ll find what I’m taking—meeting your criteria of vegetarian (vegan), eco-friendly and health-friendly (with aforementioned uncertainty)
ALA can also be found in flaxseed, soy/tofu, walnut and pumpkin, so you needn’t stick to seaweed if you only want ALA.
I once did a 3-day analysis of all foods consumed, and found I was within optimal limits on just about everything. I was high on salt and low on manganese. It’s quite possible to get everything you need using a vegetarian diet, and your particular needs will be unique to you.