Good point! I dunno much about Swedish schooling, but a brief search seems to indicate that there are religious schools, which presumably do not normalise homosexuality to the same extent as the prog schools.
Given how progressive the Church of Sweden is, they probably do.
For starters the fact that there are a lot more gays among the younger generation, i.e., the people who grew up while it was being normalized.
I assume Sweden also has Catholics/Jews/Muslims.
According to Wikipedia 5% Muslim, 2% Catholic and fewer Jews. Well the Muslims are poorly assimilated to quite possible didn’t participate in the study at all, in any case I doubt the study contains a case of two twins one of whom was raised Muslim and the other wasn’t. And I doubt there are many Catholic schools there.
It’s also true that sperm counts are dropping, and I would guess that there is a common cause. Maybe because plastics leak estrogen-mimicking chemicals?
That’s one theory. I’m more inclined to suspect memetic causes, as Jim puts it here:
Environmentalists suggests it is estrogen like compounds in the water supply. I am inclined to believe it is metaphorical estrogen in the metaphorical water supply. Society and the education system has been treating masculinity as an evil pathology, with ever increasing severity. Maybe the problem is that we need to encourage boys to be men, to be manly, to be tough.
Ok. I didn’t think it would be as low as 2%, which does lower the utility of that study.
Environmentalists suggests it is estrogen like compounds in the water supply. I am inclined to believe it is metaphorical estrogen in the metaphorical water supply. Society and the education system has been treating masculinity as an evil pathology, with ever increasing severity. Maybe the problem is that we need to encourage boys to be men, to be manly, to be tough.
Since testosterone levels change due to danger, dominance, talking to attractive women etc, I would say there is some theoretical justification for this.
I’m more inclined to suspect memetic causes,
We need more than an inclination, we need empirical data. For instance, if women are being more dominant and this is causing homosexuality, then a testable hypothesis is that socially dominant groups ought to be less gay. Do people from working class backgrounds have higher rates of homosexuality than elites?
For instance, if women are being more dominant and this is causing homosexuality, then a testable hypothesis is that socially dominant groups ought to be less gay.
Its more complicated since being socially dominant is not quite the same as being locally dominant in everyday life. Look at your typical “bad neighborhood” the people there aren’t socially dominant. But there are a lot of people there being dominant often violently so.
Society and the education system has been treating masculinity as an evil pathology, with ever increasing severity. Maybe the problem is that we need to encourage boys to be men, to be manly, to be tough.
Looking at okcupid data gay men are considerably less adventurous, aggressive, violent and confident than straight men, with the opposite pattern in lesbians. Pity they don’t have the data for bisexuals.
Still, do we know that toughness causes heterosexuality, rather than vice versa, or than something else causing both? Otherwise Jim’s proposal doesn’t make much sense.
Given how progressive the Church of Sweden is, they probably do.
For starters the fact that there are a lot more gays among the younger generation, i.e., the people who grew up while it was being normalized.
Will the two of you taboo “gays”? Do you mean men who are attracted to men, or men who have sex with men? Some of the former don’t act upon their attraction.
(And I have a pet hypothesis that these men have historically made up a sizeable fraction of Catholic priests, but that’s another story.)
I assume Sweden also has Catholics/Jews/Muslims.
It’s also true that sperm counts are dropping, and I would guess that there is a common cause. Maybe because plastics leak estrogen-mimicking chemicals?
According to Wikipedia 5% Muslim, 2% Catholic and fewer Jews. Well the Muslims are poorly assimilated to quite possible didn’t participate in the study at all, in any case I doubt the study contains a case of two twins one of whom was raised Muslim and the other wasn’t. And I doubt there are many Catholic schools there.
That’s one theory. I’m more inclined to suspect memetic causes, as Jim puts it here:
Ok. I didn’t think it would be as low as 2%, which does lower the utility of that study.
Since testosterone levels change due to danger, dominance, talking to attractive women etc, I would say there is some theoretical justification for this.
We need more than an inclination, we need empirical data. For instance, if women are being more dominant and this is causing homosexuality, then a testable hypothesis is that socially dominant groups ought to be less gay. Do people from working class backgrounds have higher rates of homosexuality than elites?
Its more complicated since being socially dominant is not quite the same as being locally dominant in everyday life. Look at your typical “bad neighborhood” the people there aren’t socially dominant. But there are a lot of people there being dominant often violently so.
But I imagine it would at least correlate.
Anyway, there should be other ways to test the idea. For a start, are the children of feminists disproportionately gay?
Yeah, because no gay men are manly and tough.
Looking at okcupid data gay men are considerably less adventurous, aggressive, violent and confident than straight men, with the opposite pattern in lesbians. Pity they don’t have the data for bisexuals.
Good point. Grandparent retracted.
Still, do we know that toughness causes heterosexuality, rather than vice versa, or than something else causing both? Otherwise Jim’s proposal doesn’t make much sense.
(Upvoted for changing your mind easily)
I would assume that its hormone levels in utero or in adolescence as the common cause.