See what I mean about the voting system being broken?
Honestly, the system is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing. If you think it is broken, I suspect you are expecting it to do something other than its purpose.
When I get frustrated by the karma system it is because I keep wanting more feedback than it provides. But this is a problem with me, not a problem with the system.
But this is a problem with me, not a problem with the system.
Then the solution to this “problem” would be to not care as much about feedback, or to want less feedback than you think you should get? Couldn’t it also be addressed by adding mechanisms for providing more feedback? I don’t see why the problem has to be on one particular side when solutions could be had either way.
ETA: I agree that denisbider appears to be injecting too much political thinking into his comments and calling it rationality, while not providing adequate support of his positions outside of said politics, and that the karma system is justifiably punishing him for it.
I can also see a potential for the current system to have a ‘delicate balance’ where changes trying to improve it could be offset by negative outcomes, but I don’t think that case has been made.
(1) I don’t see my comments as being political. If you perceive them as injecting politics, then I suspect it’s because you are used to hearing similar things in a more political environment. My comments are about reason, empathy, charity, value systems, and how they fit together.
(2) I am unable to substantiate my positions if people don’t respond. When people do respond, then I have some understanding of the differences between my viewpoint and theirs, and can substantiate. But I don’t believe it’s reasonable to expect all possible counter-arguments to be preempted in a comment of reasonable length.
(3) The “delicate balance” argument is specious—it is a form of bias in favor of what already exists. If we had a different system, then you would be calling that system a “delicate balance”.
1) Some of your earlier comments, especially those most negatively rated, set off all of my “political talking points” alarm bells. I note that many of your later comments aren’t so rated, and that you seem to be improving in your message-conveyance.
2) Your replies to replies seem to be going fairly well so far.
3) I agree that it is only potential. Thomblake posted a good link on that very topic, and it is also why I said the case had not been made, and put the phrase in quotes. However, calling it specious and saying I would agree with any system is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. Just because it’s a potential bias doesn’t mean that it is necessarily in effect, nor that its effects are so strong that it shows things are obviously broken. We do a lot of probabilistic thinking around here...
Since we’re doing probabilistic thinking, I would assign a great probability to the current system being imperfect, simply because (1) it is the system with which the site was designed prior to developing experience, and (2) the system is observed to have faults.
These faults seem to be fixable by making voting costlier, prompting readers to invest more thought when they decide to vote. I don’t even expect that this would necessarily improve my karma, but I think it would increase thoughtfulness, decrease reactivity, and improve quality overall.
There should probably be a daily limit to how many comments people can make, too. I think it would encourage longer and more thoughtful comments rather than shorter and more reactive ones.
it is the system with which the site was designed prior to developing experience
Patently false.
There should probably be a daily limit to how many comments people can make, too. I think it would encourage longer and more thoughtful comments rather than shorter and more reactive ones.
I can also see a potential for the current system to have a ‘delicate balance’ where changes trying to improve it could be offset by negative outcomes, but I don’t think that case has been made.
Honestly, the system is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing. If you think it is broken, I suspect you are expecting it to do something other than its purpose.
When I get frustrated by the karma system it is because I keep wanting more feedback than it provides. But this is a problem with me, not a problem with the system.
Then the solution to this “problem” would be to not care as much about feedback, or to want less feedback than you think you should get? Couldn’t it also be addressed by adding mechanisms for providing more feedback? I don’t see why the problem has to be on one particular side when solutions could be had either way.
ETA: I agree that denisbider appears to be injecting too much political thinking into his comments and calling it rationality, while not providing adequate support of his positions outside of said politics, and that the karma system is justifiably punishing him for it.
I can also see a potential for the current system to have a ‘delicate balance’ where changes trying to improve it could be offset by negative outcomes, but I don’t think that case has been made.
(1) I don’t see my comments as being political. If you perceive them as injecting politics, then I suspect it’s because you are used to hearing similar things in a more political environment. My comments are about reason, empathy, charity, value systems, and how they fit together.
(2) I am unable to substantiate my positions if people don’t respond. When people do respond, then I have some understanding of the differences between my viewpoint and theirs, and can substantiate. But I don’t believe it’s reasonable to expect all possible counter-arguments to be preempted in a comment of reasonable length.
(3) The “delicate balance” argument is specious—it is a form of bias in favor of what already exists. If we had a different system, then you would be calling that system a “delicate balance”.
1) Some of your earlier comments, especially those most negatively rated, set off all of my “political talking points” alarm bells. I note that many of your later comments aren’t so rated, and that you seem to be improving in your message-conveyance.
2) Your replies to replies seem to be going fairly well so far.
3) I agree that it is only potential. Thomblake posted a good link on that very topic, and it is also why I said the case had not been made, and put the phrase in quotes. However, calling it specious and saying I would agree with any system is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. Just because it’s a potential bias doesn’t mean that it is necessarily in effect, nor that its effects are so strong that it shows things are obviously broken. We do a lot of probabilistic thinking around here...
Since we’re doing probabilistic thinking, I would assign a great probability to the current system being imperfect, simply because (1) it is the system with which the site was designed prior to developing experience, and (2) the system is observed to have faults.
These faults seem to be fixable by making voting costlier, prompting readers to invest more thought when they decide to vote. I don’t even expect that this would necessarily improve my karma, but I think it would increase thoughtfulness, decrease reactivity, and improve quality overall.
There should probably be a daily limit to how many comments people can make, too. I think it would encourage longer and more thoughtful comments rather than shorter and more reactive ones.
Patently false.
I disagree on both points.
Related: Reversal test
ETA: on second thought, more related: status quo bias
The frustration is the problem. If I keep getting frustrated than I keep expecting something other than reality.