I am becoming increasingly disinclined to stick out the grad school thing; it’s not fun anymore, and really, a doctorate in philosophy is not going to let me do anything substantially different in kind from what I’m doing now once I have it. Nor will it earn me barrels of money or do immense social good, so if it’s not fun, I’m kinda low on reasons to stay. I haven’t outright decided to leave, but you know what they say. I’m putting out tentative feelers for what else I’d do if I do wind up abandoning ship. Can anyone think of a use for me—ideally one that doesn’t require me to eat my savings while I pick up other credentials first?
Not directly applicable, but perhaps relevant: I was told this advice and found it useful (in that I used it to make important life decisions). “Don’t do your passion for a job,” she said. “Everyone wakes up one day and hates their job. Don’t wake up one day and hate what you love. Do something you like that you’re at.”
Also, I don’t remember who told me this or if I made it up, but I’ve relayed it to people: Don’t look for fulfillment from your job. Don’t go for the highest peaks; just try to avoid the lowest valleys.
That’s a rather interesting idea, and I wonder if there’s any way to test it. It certainly accords with my experience— I’m pretty happy as a mathematician whose passion is more about arguing than about math. (I’ve started an occasional argument society, which is generally the highlight of my month.)
The reason this works (to whatever extent it works) probably boils down to status, and the fact that in a big world, everyone rises until they get introduced to the level above theirs. If math were my passion, I’d constantly be comparing myself to people better at it than I am, and I’d probably be miserable about it. (Even as it is, this part stings subconsciously.) But instead, I have a good niche in multiple social worlds: my colleagues think it’s neat that I have these well-argued contrarian ideas about all kinds of topics, while my other friends are impressed by the fact I’m getting a PhD in math.
Of course, the same factor works with my other hobby (dancing), despite that being neither my vocation nor my passion. I think the takeaway lesson here is that we’re not really happy unless we’re at the top in our social niche, and that the best way to achieve this in a big modern world is to have multiple independent specialties...
I think everyone in grad school has these moments, sometimes for prolonged stints. In the math world they seem to be suggestively correlated with making progress on research =p
Personally though, even when everything is going well in research, I still feel the same nagging sensation that I should either be out making butt-loads of cash or helping humanity (or helping humanity by donating butt-loads of cash).
Reasons I’ve stuck it out so far:
I am absolutely terrified of a life of mediocrity. I don’t want to end up in a cubicle.
Academia is a good place to consistently meet reasonably intelligent people
Setting your own schedule is pretty awesome
That said, I’m still not sold on it. I took 6 months off last year to try and found my own company. I’m still moonlighting it, and hoping I can get it to the point where I know it will fly or not before having to commit to a post doc position.
I’m not particularly terrified of mediocrity as long as it’s not unsafe mediocrity. The cubicle doesn’t appeal to me, but, say, I think I could be a pretty happy house spouse. As for meeting intelligent people, sure, they’re around in academia, but I’m more interested in meeting smart people who I’d have some inclination to interact with socially, and the Internet seems, in practice, to be better for that. And I’m not setting my own schedule—I’m still doing my own coursework, and would have a couple more semesters of that to go even assuming a best case scenario.
House spouse doesn’t have to be a mediocre life. In fact.. it could more or less be the best ‘job’ ever. It’s like a tenured professorship where you actually get to study and research whatever you want!
Huh. I hadn’t though of it before, but I’m going to have to add house spouse to my list of acceptable future paths.
Any job involving a cubicle doesn’t have to be mediocre either. Anyway, being a house spouse requires being a spouse, to someone willing to stand in the “breadwinner” role, so I can’t just up and do that by myself.
In a nutshell: The environment is unsupportive and draining. The only teacher I “click” with is in a sub-field of study that I have next to no interest in, and even if I wanted to go study his topic to get to work with him, he’s leaving at the end of this semester. Meanwhile, the teachers who work on the subjects I like whom I’ve completed courses with seem to actively dislike me. I don’t think I’m a good fit for the department in general, which is uncomfortably political and stern, and trying to transfer would be hard because, having stuck it out this long, I’ve collected some less than admirable grades.
I was surprised to read your comment above; I had always gotten the impression that you enjoyed what you were doing. (I also liked the idea that one of LW’s top contributors was a philosophy grad student; it helps to counteract a slight tendency toward rivalry that I detect between “LW types” and academic philosophers.)
How about attempting to get in touch with people you think you would get along with elsewhere, and seeing if you can impress them?
I try to cultivate a cheerful attitude, which often projects. It failed me this semester, so I’m abandoning ship. You’ll need to rely on thomblake for your philosophy grad student needs.
I might or might not try to resume my studies at a later date, but for now, I’m going to spend a month at the SIAI and see if they want to keep me :)
Wow. I keep forgetting PhD students over there do actual coursework. research only over here. Apart from that little difference I can empathize somewhat with graduate programs becoming draining, particularly when the process becomes predominately political.
It varies not only from country to country, but even just department to department. Different fields have different expectations for what a PhD (and Master’s!) means.
How can we possibly know what your comparative advantage is, better than you do? In all seriousness, a certain amount of background information seems to be missing here.
I do talk about myself on this website sometimes. One could conceivably have picked up a lot about me. What is the necessary information for determining comparative advantage?
I can’t really answer your question—not knowing your skills. IT for medium to large corporations is still a pretty good field in some respects and you can advance very quickly if you are smart, regardless of college education. Beginner level certs to get a first level helpdesk job would cost only a couple hundred dollars and take you a month or less to study up for—assuming you have any “knack” for computers. It does turn you into a cubicle drone though. This is the route I took...it pays very well but I do hate it after twelve years of it I feel sort of trapped—we’re somehow dependent on this level of income etc. There was a period of time where I really was interested in the work itself (I do software development) but thats really long passed. Writing business applications gets pretty old after awhile and the new toys the vendors come out with every two years are just a way to re-sell the same solution to the same problems...
My sister (2.5 years younger) and her husband both have PHD’s from Notre Dame in english literature—roughly as useful as a philosophy degree I’d guess. I guess they did ok finding jobs on tenured tracks; their life is teaching, writing papers, going to conferences. They complain about stupid department politics, stupid field of study politics, stupid useless papers they have to grade etc. I don’t really think they are a lot happier with their jobs than me.
I’m not very technical. I know enough to operate my Mac and maintain my websites. And I’m not good with phones—I don’t like them, and I can’t control my tendency to talk fast over long periods, which makes me hard to understand.
I’m liable for some fees, but tutition per se is waived and they paid me to teach last semester and grade papers last year (this semester I’m coasting).
Right now, I’m taking classes, only one of which I chose for the topic instead of because I thought the teacher would be more likely to be sympathetic. I like drawing and cooking and reading and writing and talking and teaching (which they’re not letting me do this semester because there were limited spots and I got one last semester) and learning things that are useful in some way, even if only in organizing my own thoughts or intriguing interlocutors.
How much more grad school do you have to go to your degree? This sounds like a profile of a teacher at some level, probably high school or college. The degree makes college an option. High school teaching may be more enjoyable for you; I don’t know.
If you’re a year away from your PhD, it probably makes sense to stick it out. If it’s three years… three years is a long damn time to be unhappy somewhere.
The exact amount of time isn’t fixed, but it taking less than three years would be surprising. I like the idea of teaching, maybe art or (at a sufficiently quirky school) logic/critical thinking, but don’t have a certification and it looks like they take a long time to get.
I am becoming increasingly disinclined to stick out the grad school thing; it’s not fun anymore, and really, a doctorate in philosophy is not going to let me do anything substantially different in kind from what I’m doing now once I have it. Nor will it earn me barrels of money or do immense social good, so if it’s not fun, I’m kinda low on reasons to stay. I haven’t outright decided to leave, but you know what they say. I’m putting out tentative feelers for what else I’d do if I do wind up abandoning ship. Can anyone think of a use for me—ideally one that doesn’t require me to eat my savings while I pick up other credentials first?
Not directly applicable, but perhaps relevant: I was told this advice and found it useful (in that I used it to make important life decisions). “Don’t do your passion for a job,” she said. “Everyone wakes up one day and hates their job. Don’t wake up one day and hate what you love. Do something you like that you’re at.”
Also, I don’t remember who told me this or if I made it up, but I’ve relayed it to people: Don’t look for fulfillment from your job. Don’t go for the highest peaks; just try to avoid the lowest valleys.
That’s a rather interesting idea, and I wonder if there’s any way to test it. It certainly accords with my experience— I’m pretty happy as a mathematician whose passion is more about arguing than about math. (I’ve started an occasional argument society, which is generally the highlight of my month.)
The reason this works (to whatever extent it works) probably boils down to status, and the fact that in a big world, everyone rises until they get introduced to the level above theirs. If math were my passion, I’d constantly be comparing myself to people better at it than I am, and I’d probably be miserable about it. (Even as it is, this part stings subconsciously.) But instead, I have a good niche in multiple social worlds: my colleagues think it’s neat that I have these well-argued contrarian ideas about all kinds of topics, while my other friends are impressed by the fact I’m getting a PhD in math.
Of course, the same factor works with my other hobby (dancing), despite that being neither my vocation nor my passion. I think the takeaway lesson here is that we’re not really happy unless we’re at the top in our social niche, and that the best way to achieve this in a big modern world is to have multiple independent specialties...
I think everyone in grad school has these moments, sometimes for prolonged stints. In the math world they seem to be suggestively correlated with making progress on research =p
Personally though, even when everything is going well in research, I still feel the same nagging sensation that I should either be out making butt-loads of cash or helping humanity (or helping humanity by donating butt-loads of cash).
Reasons I’ve stuck it out so far:
I am absolutely terrified of a life of mediocrity. I don’t want to end up in a cubicle.
Academia is a good place to consistently meet reasonably intelligent people
Setting your own schedule is pretty awesome
That said, I’m still not sold on it. I took 6 months off last year to try and found my own company. I’m still moonlighting it, and hoping I can get it to the point where I know it will fly or not before having to commit to a post doc position.
I’m not particularly terrified of mediocrity as long as it’s not unsafe mediocrity. The cubicle doesn’t appeal to me, but, say, I think I could be a pretty happy house spouse. As for meeting intelligent people, sure, they’re around in academia, but I’m more interested in meeting smart people who I’d have some inclination to interact with socially, and the Internet seems, in practice, to be better for that. And I’m not setting my own schedule—I’m still doing my own coursework, and would have a couple more semesters of that to go even assuming a best case scenario.
House spouse doesn’t have to be a mediocre life. In fact.. it could more or less be the best ‘job’ ever. It’s like a tenured professorship where you actually get to study and research whatever you want!
Huh. I hadn’t though of it before, but I’m going to have to add house spouse to my list of acceptable future paths.
Any job involving a cubicle doesn’t have to be mediocre either. Anyway, being a house spouse requires being a spouse, to someone willing to stand in the “breadwinner” role, so I can’t just up and do that by myself.
Why isn’t it fun?
In a nutshell: The environment is unsupportive and draining. The only teacher I “click” with is in a sub-field of study that I have next to no interest in, and even if I wanted to go study his topic to get to work with him, he’s leaving at the end of this semester. Meanwhile, the teachers who work on the subjects I like whom I’ve completed courses with seem to actively dislike me. I don’t think I’m a good fit for the department in general, which is uncomfortably political and stern, and trying to transfer would be hard because, having stuck it out this long, I’ve collected some less than admirable grades.
It sounds like you should try to transfer anyway.
I was surprised to read your comment above; I had always gotten the impression that you enjoyed what you were doing. (I also liked the idea that one of LW’s top contributors was a philosophy grad student; it helps to counteract a slight tendency toward rivalry that I detect between “LW types” and academic philosophers.)
How about attempting to get in touch with people you think you would get along with elsewhere, and seeing if you can impress them?
I try to cultivate a cheerful attitude, which often projects. It failed me this semester, so I’m abandoning ship. You’ll need to rely on thomblake for your philosophy grad student needs.
I might or might not try to resume my studies at a later date, but for now, I’m going to spend a month at the SIAI and see if they want to keep me :)
Wow. I keep forgetting PhD students over there do actual coursework. research only over here. Apart from that little difference I can empathize somewhat with graduate programs becoming draining, particularly when the process becomes predominately political.
It varies not only from country to country, but even just department to department. Different fields have different expectations for what a PhD (and Master’s!) means.
How can we possibly know what your comparative advantage is, better than you do? In all seriousness, a certain amount of background information seems to be missing here.
Conceivably, someone here may have more exposure to parts of the world that Alicorn may not be aware of.
I do talk about myself on this website sometimes. One could conceivably have picked up a lot about me. What is the necessary information for determining comparative advantage?
I can’t really answer your question—not knowing your skills. IT for medium to large corporations is still a pretty good field in some respects and you can advance very quickly if you are smart, regardless of college education. Beginner level certs to get a first level helpdesk job would cost only a couple hundred dollars and take you a month or less to study up for—assuming you have any “knack” for computers. It does turn you into a cubicle drone though. This is the route I took...it pays very well but I do hate it after twelve years of it I feel sort of trapped—we’re somehow dependent on this level of income etc. There was a period of time where I really was interested in the work itself (I do software development) but thats really long passed. Writing business applications gets pretty old after awhile and the new toys the vendors come out with every two years are just a way to re-sell the same solution to the same problems...
My sister (2.5 years younger) and her husband both have PHD’s from Notre Dame in english literature—roughly as useful as a philosophy degree I’d guess. I guess they did ok finding jobs on tenured tracks; their life is teaching, writing papers, going to conferences. They complain about stupid department politics, stupid field of study politics, stupid useless papers they have to grade etc. I don’t really think they are a lot happier with their jobs than me.
I’m not very technical. I know enough to operate my Mac and maintain my websites. And I’m not good with phones—I don’t like them, and I can’t control my tendency to talk fast over long periods, which makes me hard to understand.
Are you paying for grad school or do you have a scholarship+stipend?
I’m liable for some fees, but tutition per se is waived and they paid me to teach last semester and grade papers last year (this semester I’m coasting).
What do you do now? What do you like doing?
Right now, I’m taking classes, only one of which I chose for the topic instead of because I thought the teacher would be more likely to be sympathetic. I like drawing and cooking and reading and writing and talking and teaching (which they’re not letting me do this semester because there were limited spots and I got one last semester) and learning things that are useful in some way, even if only in organizing my own thoughts or intriguing interlocutors.
How much more grad school do you have to go to your degree? This sounds like a profile of a teacher at some level, probably high school or college. The degree makes college an option. High school teaching may be more enjoyable for you; I don’t know.
If you’re a year away from your PhD, it probably makes sense to stick it out. If it’s three years… three years is a long damn time to be unhappy somewhere.
The exact amount of time isn’t fixed, but it taking less than three years would be surprising. I like the idea of teaching, maybe art or (at a sufficiently quirky school) logic/critical thinking, but don’t have a certification and it looks like they take a long time to get.