Is belief in the supernatural (crystal healing, ghosts, “something higher”, that sort of thing) actually lower? I’d be very surprised if this turned out to be a cultural or demographic thing, rather than a human thing. I think that, absent some sort of active cultural intervention preventing it, a psychologically typical human will believe in spirits and magic. I know I would.
I think atheists, being psychologically typical humans, still retain certain implicit beliefs about this sort of thing. Ideas about how our matter goes on to circulate through the ecosystem, or the notion that we’re all made of star-stuff and are generally one with the universe, are powerful and comforting to many.
The embrace of impermanence is so often accomplished by manufacturing a different sort of permanence to cling to.
Is belief in the supernatural (crystal healing, ghosts, “something higher”, that sort of thing) actually lower?
If you take ghosts in Germany as an example 79.7% say they don’t believe while only 17.7 believe they do.
I think that, absent some sort of active cultural intervention preventing it, a psychologically typical human will believe in spirits and magic. I know I would.
School curriculums are written in a way to discourage belief in ghosts and not treat it as a mainstream belief. Mainstream media does the same. We don’t have figures like Oprah on German mainstream TV.
Ideas about how our matter goes on to circulate through the ecosystem, or the notion that we’re all made of star-stuff and are generally one with the universe, are powerful and comforting to many.
While that might be true, I don’t think that people on LW are radically different on that count.
While that might be true, I don’t think that people on LW are radically different on that count.
Yes, neither do I. I’m not even personally different on that count. Aside from the forum-specific ideologies, Lesswrongers being unusual is a more extreme case of internet forum users being unusual, which is in turn a more extreme case of extremely literate people being unusual, and so on.
But Lesswrongers are different when it comes to the question whether curing ageing is a valuable goal. Few people on LW want to die before they are 1000. That’s different for the general population. It’s worthwhile to try to understand where the difference comes from.
Desire to live indefinitely is not that uncommon in the general population in the first place, this is a transhumanist forum so there is a self-selection effect from the outset (LWers beliefs about AI are way weirder than the immortality thing), and almost every single person here has been exposed to explicit arguments for wanting immortality, moreover, in a setting where not wanting immortality is low status. Isn’t this kind of like asking why church members are more likely to believe in God?
In this discussion there was the hypothesis that people don’t want to fight aging because of the promise of eternal life from religion.
When we want to convince people it’s useful to know whether that’s true.
The polling data doesn’t seem to suggest that hypothesis when religious Brazil in general is pro-longevity while more atheistic Russia has the lowest support for longevity.
Of course that are single data points but it still suggests that religion isn’t the core force that prevents people from wanting longevity.
Isn’t this kind of like asking why church members are more likely to believe in God?
It quite useful to understand how people come to believe and then go to Church.
(By the way, I never was suggesting that religion caused people to not desire earthly longevity. I was saying that the fact that nearly all human religions often feature immorality suggest that nearly all humans find it difficult to understand and accept true-death and wish for immortality on some level.
Furthermore I was saying that if someone happily believes in an afterlife, we should probably count them as desiring immortality even if they claim to desire an earthly death. I’m disagreeing with the idea that we should take claims of wishing to die at face value—I think that most who would turn down an eternal life (assuming good health, companionship, purpose, and so on) are either mistaken about what they prefer, or mistaken about the universe.
In Europe with higher rates of atheism you still don’t get a majority of people to want to live forever.
Is belief in the supernatural (crystal healing, ghosts, “something higher”, that sort of thing) actually lower? I’d be very surprised if this turned out to be a cultural or demographic thing, rather than a human thing. I think that, absent some sort of active cultural intervention preventing it, a psychologically typical human will believe in spirits and magic. I know I would.
I think atheists, being psychologically typical humans, still retain certain implicit beliefs about this sort of thing. Ideas about how our matter goes on to circulate through the ecosystem, or the notion that we’re all made of star-stuff and are generally one with the universe, are powerful and comforting to many.
The embrace of impermanence is so often accomplished by manufacturing a different sort of permanence to cling to.
If you take ghosts in Germany as an example 79.7% say they don’t believe while only 17.7 believe they do.
School curriculums are written in a way to discourage belief in ghosts and not treat it as a mainstream belief. Mainstream media does the same. We don’t have figures like Oprah on German mainstream TV.
While that might be true, I don’t think that people on LW are radically different on that count.
Yes, neither do I. I’m not even personally different on that count. Aside from the forum-specific ideologies, Lesswrongers being unusual is a more extreme case of internet forum users being unusual, which is in turn a more extreme case of extremely literate people being unusual, and so on.
But Lesswrongers are different when it comes to the question whether curing ageing is a valuable goal. Few people on LW want to die before they are 1000. That’s different for the general population. It’s worthwhile to try to understand where the difference comes from.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/08/06/living-to-120-and-beyond-americans-views-on-aging-medical-advances-and-radical-life-extension/
http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/07/who-wants-to-live-forever.html
Desire to live indefinitely is not that uncommon in the general population in the first place, this is a transhumanist forum so there is a self-selection effect from the outset (LWers beliefs about AI are way weirder than the immortality thing), and almost every single person here has been exposed to explicit arguments for wanting immortality, moreover, in a setting where not wanting immortality is low status. Isn’t this kind of like asking why church members are more likely to believe in God?
In this discussion there was the hypothesis that people don’t want to fight aging because of the promise of eternal life from religion. When we want to convince people it’s useful to know whether that’s true.
The polling data doesn’t seem to suggest that hypothesis when religious Brazil in general is pro-longevity while more atheistic Russia has the lowest support for longevity. Of course that are single data points but it still suggests that religion isn’t the core force that prevents people from wanting longevity.
It quite useful to understand how people come to believe and then go to Church.
Agreed.
(By the way, I never was suggesting that religion caused people to not desire earthly longevity. I was saying that the fact that nearly all human religions often feature immorality suggest that nearly all humans find it difficult to understand and accept true-death and wish for immortality on some level.
Furthermore I was saying that if someone happily believes in an afterlife, we should probably count them as desiring immortality even if they claim to desire an earthly death. I’m disagreeing with the idea that we should take claims of wishing to die at face value—I think that most who would turn down an eternal life (assuming good health, companionship, purpose, and so on) are either mistaken about what they prefer, or mistaken about the universe.
With many exceptions, of course.)