Pfft, it was an example whose truth value is circumstantial as it was merely an analogy used to convey the gist what I was trying to say, namely to subsequently base conclusions and actions on other conclusions which themselves do not bear evidence. And I won’t read the MWI sequence before learning the required math.
Check my comment here. More details would hint at the banned content.
I never said EY or the SIAI based any conclusions on it. It was, as I frequently said, an example to elucidate what I’m talking about when saying that I cannot fathom the origin of some of the assertions made here as they appear to me to be based on other conclusions that are not yet tested themselves.
What the hell? That link doesn’t contain any conclusions based on MWI—in fact, it doesn’t seem to contain any conclusions at all, just a bunch of questions. If you mean that MWI is based on unfounded conclusions (rather than that other conclusions are based on MWI), then that’s a claim that you really shouldn’t be making if you haven’t read the MWI sequence.
I see no connection whatsoever to the banned content, either in the topic of MWI or in the comment you linked to. This is a bizarre non-sequitur, and as someone who wants to avoid thinking about that topic, I do not appreciate it. (If you do see a connection, explain only by private message, please. But I’d rather you just let it drop.)
My post was intended to be asking questions, not making arguments. Obviously you haven’t read the banned content.
You seem not to understand my primary question that I tried to highlight by the MWI analogy. MWI is a founded conclusion but you shouldn’t use it to make further conclusions based on it. That is, a conclusion first has to yield a new hypothesis that makes predictions. Once you got new data, something that makes a difference, you can go from there and hypothesize that you can influence causally disconnected parts of the multiverse or that it would be a good idea tossing a quantum coin to make key decisions.
After all it was probably a bad decisions to use that example. All you have to do is to substitute MWI with AGI. AGI is, though I’m not sure, a founded conclusion. But taking that conclusion and running with it building a huge framework of further conclusions around it is in my opinion questionable. First this conclusion has to yield marginal evidence of its feasibility, then you are able to create a further hypothesis engaged with further consequences.
I do not appreciate being told that I “obviously” have not read something that I have, in fact, read. And if you were keeping track, I have previously sent you private messages correcting your misconceptions on that topic, so you should have known that. And now that I’ve hinted at why you think it’s connected to MWI, I can see that that’s just another misconception.
Your tone is antagonistic and I had to restrain myself from saying some very hurtful things that I would’ve regretted. You need to take a step back and think about what you’re doing here, before you burn any more social bridges.
EDIT: Argh, restraint fail. That’s what the two deleted comments below this are.
Is it, and that of EY? Are you telling him the same? Check this comment and tell me again that I am antagonistic.
If I come over as such, I’m sorry. I’m a bit stressed writing so many comments accusing me of trying to damage this movement or making false arguments when all I did was indeed trying to inquire about some problems I have, asking questions.
I think part of the reason this went over badly is that in the US, there is a well-known and widely hated talk show host named Glenn Beck whose favorite rhetorical trick is to disguise attacks as questions, saying things like “Is it really true that so-and-so eats babies?”, repeating it enough times that his audience comes to believe that person eats babies, and then defending his accusations by saying “I’m just asking questions”. So some of us, having been exposed to that in the past, see questions and rhetoric mixed a certain way, subconsciously pattern-match against that, and get angry.
If I come over as such, I’m sorry. I’m a bit stressed writing so many comments accusing me of trying to damage this movement or making false arguments when all I did was indeed trying to inquire about some problems I have, asking questions.
I did get the impression that some took your questions as purely rhetorical, soldiers fighting against the credibility of SIAI. I took you as someone hoping to be convinced but with a responsible level of wariness.
I did get the impression that some took your questions as purely rhetorical, soldiers fighting against the credibility of SIAI. I took you as someone hoping to be convinced but with a responsible level of wariness.
That was my impression, also. As a result, I found many elements of the responses to XiXiDu to be disappointing. While there were a few errors in his post (e.g. attributing Kurweil views to SIAI), in general it should have been taken as an opportunity to clarify and throw down some useful links, rather than treat XiXiDu (who is also an SIAI donor!) as a low-g interloper.
Oh, you are the guy who’s spreading all the misinformation about it just so nobody is going to ask more specific questions regarding that topic. Hah, I remember you know. Thanks, but no thanks.
You wrote this and afterwards sending me a private message on how you are telling me this so that I shut up.
Why would I expect honest argumentation from someone who makes use of such tactics? Especially when I talked about the very same topic with you before just to find out that you do this deliberately?
I apologize for my previous comment—I felt provoked, but regardless of the context, it was way out of line.
The thing with the banned topic is, I’m really trying to avoid thinking about it, and seeing it mentioned makes it hard to do that, so I feel annoyed whenever it’s brought up. That’s not something I’m used to dealing with, and it’s a corner case that the usual rules of discourse don’t really cover, so I may not have handled it correctly.
It was my fault all the way to the OP. I was intrigued about the deletion incident and couldn’t shut up and now I thought it was a good idea to inquire about questions that trouble me for so long and to to steer some debate by provoking strong emotions.
I actually understand that you do not want to think about it. It was a dumb idea to steer further debate into that direction. But how could I know before finding out about it? I’m not the personality type who’s going to follow someone telling me not to read about something, to not even think about it.
Pfft, it was an example whose truth value is circumstantial as it was merely an analogy used to convey the gist what I was trying to say, namely to subsequently base conclusions and actions on other conclusions which themselves do not bear evidence. And I won’t read the MWI sequence before learning the required math.
What subsequent conclusions are based on MWI?
Check my comment here. More details would hint at the banned content.
I never said EY or the SIAI based any conclusions on it. It was, as I frequently said, an example to elucidate what I’m talking about when saying that I cannot fathom the origin of some of the assertions made here as they appear to me to be based on other conclusions that are not yet tested themselves.
What the hell? That link doesn’t contain any conclusions based on MWI—in fact, it doesn’t seem to contain any conclusions at all, just a bunch of questions. If you mean that MWI is based on unfounded conclusions (rather than that other conclusions are based on MWI), then that’s a claim that you really shouldn’t be making if you haven’t read the MWI sequence.
I see no connection whatsoever to the banned content, either in the topic of MWI or in the comment you linked to. This is a bizarre non-sequitur, and as someone who wants to avoid thinking about that topic, I do not appreciate it. (If you do see a connection, explain only by private message, please. But I’d rather you just let it drop.)
My post was intended to be asking questions, not making arguments. Obviously you haven’t read the banned content.
You seem not to understand my primary question that I tried to highlight by the MWI analogy. MWI is a founded conclusion but you shouldn’t use it to make further conclusions based on it. That is, a conclusion first has to yield a new hypothesis that makes predictions. Once you got new data, something that makes a difference, you can go from there and hypothesize that you can influence causally disconnected parts of the multiverse or that it would be a good idea tossing a quantum coin to make key decisions.
After all it was probably a bad decisions to use that example. All you have to do is to substitute MWI with AGI. AGI is, though I’m not sure, a founded conclusion. But taking that conclusion and running with it building a huge framework of further conclusions around it is in my opinion questionable. First this conclusion has to yield marginal evidence of its feasibility, then you are able to create a further hypothesis engaged with further consequences.
I do not appreciate being told that I “obviously” have not read something that I have, in fact, read. And if you were keeping track, I have previously sent you private messages correcting your misconceptions on that topic, so you should have known that. And now that I’ve hinted at why you think it’s connected to MWI, I can see that that’s just another misconception.
Your tone is antagonistic and I had to restrain myself from saying some very hurtful things that I would’ve regretted. You need to take a step back and think about what you’re doing here, before you burn any more social bridges.
EDIT: Argh, restraint fail. That’s what the two deleted comments below this are.
Is it, and that of EY? Are you telling him the same? Check this comment and tell me again that I am antagonistic.
If I come over as such, I’m sorry. I’m a bit stressed writing so many comments accusing me of trying to damage this movement or making false arguments when all I did was indeed trying to inquire about some problems I have, asking questions.
I think part of the reason this went over badly is that in the US, there is a well-known and widely hated talk show host named Glenn Beck whose favorite rhetorical trick is to disguise attacks as questions, saying things like “Is it really true that so-and-so eats babies?”, repeating it enough times that his audience comes to believe that person eats babies, and then defending his accusations by saying “I’m just asking questions”. So some of us, having been exposed to that in the past, see questions and rhetoric mixed a certain way, subconsciously pattern-match against that, and get angry.
I did get the impression that some took your questions as purely rhetorical, soldiers fighting against the credibility of SIAI. I took you as someone hoping to be convinced but with a responsible level of wariness.
That was my impression, also. As a result, I found many elements of the responses to XiXiDu to be disappointing. While there were a few errors in his post (e.g. attributing Kurweil views to SIAI), in general it should have been taken as an opportunity to clarify and throw down some useful links, rather than treat XiXiDu (who is also an SIAI donor!) as a low-g interloper.
Oh, you are the guy who’s spreading all the misinformation about it just so nobody is going to ask more specific questions regarding that topic. Hah, I remember you know. Thanks, but no thanks.
Fuck you, and please leave. Is that the reaction you were hoping for, troll?
You wrote this and afterwards sending me a private message on how you are telling me this so that I shut up.
Why would I expect honest argumentation from someone who makes use of such tactics? Especially when I talked about the very same topic with you before just to find out that you do this deliberately?
Anyway, I herewith apologize unconditionally for any offence and deleted my previous comment.
Going to watch a movie now and eat ice cream. Have fun :-)
I apologize for my previous comment—I felt provoked, but regardless of the context, it was way out of line.
The thing with the banned topic is, I’m really trying to avoid thinking about it, and seeing it mentioned makes it hard to do that, so I feel annoyed whenever it’s brought up. That’s not something I’m used to dealing with, and it’s a corner case that the usual rules of discourse don’t really cover, so I may not have handled it correctly.
It was my fault all the way to the OP. I was intrigued about the deletion incident and couldn’t shut up and now I thought it was a good idea to inquire about questions that trouble me for so long and to to steer some debate by provoking strong emotions.
I actually understand that you do not want to think about it. It was a dumb idea to steer further debate into that direction. But how could I know before finding out about it? I’m not the personality type who’s going to follow someone telling me not to read about something, to not even think about it.
I deleted the other comment as well.