OK, now we are getting somewhere. Predictions and wild guesses! QM only makes correct predictions if one invents massless particles like photons. The LHC will never discover a massless particle no matter how many billions of dollars are poured into it. Marge Simpson was right!
The fact that QM says things about reality that you don’t like doesn’t change the fact that QM makes correct predictions. Many commenters in this thread have pointed out that there is a mountain of experimental evidence in favor of QM and against “intuitive” theories of physics. You have essentially ignored that body of evidence and insisted that reality must be simple, intuitive, and easy to explain. At this point, I have to ask: How much evidence would it take to convince you that our universe’s physics are complicated? What observation would you need to see for you to believe that reality isn’t always intuitive and easy to understand?
It is not about weather or not I like that QM makes “correct predictions” because reality is not about ’predictions.” Is it up for vote? It is not about mountains of experimental evidence in favor of QM., because evidence is opinion based on fallible human observations (5 senses). Nature does not ask for anyone’s opinion.
Tell me something: Is “Monkeymind” intended to be an avatar account, along the lines of “Clippy”. If so you have absolutely nailed it. You have role played the mind of the human mind (with its monkey-kinship) as it grapples with understanding physics at a level that is beyond its usual scope of practical optimisation and you have done so perfectly. I just can’t tell whether you meant it that way or not.
Yes, and you are not answering any questions I put forth further illustrating monkeyminds at work here. Care to show me where I don’t understand physics. I can argue that you do not. In general because physics should be abut objects that exist and in particular because you can not give me a hypothesis of what object mediates the phenomena of light, let alone a theory which explains your hypothesis. All you seem to be capable of doing is be condescending.
Tell me something: Is “Monkeymind” intended to be an avatar account, along the lines of “Clippy”.
Yes
That being the case trying to argue you into not thinking like the monkeymind avatar in question would be equivalent to trying to convince Clippy that paperclips really aren’t all they are cracked up to be—pointless. If you admit (as you do above) that your account is a satirical role-play account rather than you sincerely expressing your ignorance then you shouldn’t expect people to be obliged to buy into your games. Feel free to retract the ‘yes’ at any time if you wish to be taken seriously.
All you seem to be capable of doing is be condescending.
If you role play an avatar that is bad at thinking it is inevitable that it will seem to you like people are treating you as if you are stupid.
Sorry, I did not understand what you meant by Clippy. Never heard of it b4, so I answered hastily. I use Monkeymind everywhere. I used this avatar originally when discussing evolution with theists, and just kept the name.
I am being serious, and so obviously my questions are serious, and they must be good ones because so far, there have been few reasonable answers. One may say that it is because I truly do not understand the topic(s). Feel free to set me straight any time, rather than just telling me I don’t understand.
If you would like to show me where my ignorance lies or that my thinking is flawed, I would appreciate it. I don’t like being wrong, but I don’t mind being corrected. In fact, I desire it so that I do not have to continue holding on to outdated or non-useful explanations.
However, let me state that I do not necessarily think there is a wrong or a right conclusion to the scientific method. Just explanations which are rational or not rational. Explanations that make sense or do not make sense. If this is the flaw in my thinking you are alluding to, then feel free to make a case for that. If it is about the thot experiment of computer generated amplitudes being fired at make believe half-silvered mirrors, then I am all ears.
Theoretical physics is conceptual. Technology (mostly trial & error) is empirical.
Maybe in the process, I will learn something and I can help you realize the limitations of math and the current state of your (apparently collective) understanding and use of the scientific method.
It is not about weather or not I like that QM makes “correct predictions” because reality is not about ’predictions.”
I strongly recommend that you find a physicist and say this to them. They will almost certainly disagree, because making successful predictions is what science is all about. Theories explain, yes, but they do so by offering a mechanism or creating a model for how something works, and the only way to tell if that model is correct is by seeing if it can accurately predict reality. To invent an accurate post hoc explanation if you need the ability to test its validity, and the only way to do that is to see what advance predictions it makes and test those. This is, of course, the reason scientists perform experiments.
The rule based language of math only describes, it has no explanatory value at all!
Again, I strongly recommend you speak to a physicist about this, because it just isn’t true. In the meantime, take a look at this LW post, which is a clear example of how a mathematical theory of physics, in this case Newtonian physics, can make predictions.
Give me a hypothesis of what object mediates the phenomena of light and then your theory can explain refraction, reflection, diffraction, dble slit and half silver mirror experiments.
This is my hypothesis. The things it deals with aren’t “objects” in the way the word “objects” is usually used, because the term generally refers to things made up of more than one atom, and QM describes things at a much lower level. However, QM does helpfully provide precise mathematical rules for how these sub-atomic things behave, some of which are outlined in the original post. We know that this explanation is true, at least to a certain degree of approximation, because of its experimental success at predicting some of the things you listed (double slit experiments, etc.). You can talk all you want about how much this doesn’t “make sense,” but the fact remains, the mathematical model outlined in QM is extremely good at predicting reality, which strongly suggests that it really does describe what’s really true.
The point is QM has to invent non-existent massless particles to make their math come out. Nature could care less about mathematical constructs or models.
And BTW, speaking of point, can you define point for me? Everyone here seems to want to tell me what I don’t understand. Perhaps you can educate me.
OK, now we are getting somewhere. Predictions and wild guesses! QM only makes correct predictions if one invents massless particles like photons. The LHC will never discover a massless particle no matter how many billions of dollars are poured into it. Marge Simpson was right!
The fact that QM says things about reality that you don’t like doesn’t change the fact that QM makes correct predictions. Many commenters in this thread have pointed out that there is a mountain of experimental evidence in favor of QM and against “intuitive” theories of physics. You have essentially ignored that body of evidence and insisted that reality must be simple, intuitive, and easy to explain. At this point, I have to ask: How much evidence would it take to convince you that our universe’s physics are complicated? What observation would you need to see for you to believe that reality isn’t always intuitive and easy to understand?
x
Tell me something: Is “Monkeymind” intended to be an avatar account, along the lines of “Clippy”. If so you have absolutely nailed it. You have role played the mind of the human mind (with its monkey-kinship) as it grapples with understanding physics at a level that is beyond its usual scope of practical optimisation and you have done so perfectly. I just can’t tell whether you meant it that way or not.
Yes, and you are not answering any questions I put forth further illustrating monkeyminds at work here. Care to show me where I don’t understand physics. I can argue that you do not. In general because physics should be abut objects that exist and in particular because you can not give me a hypothesis of what object mediates the phenomena of light, let alone a theory which explains your hypothesis. All you seem to be capable of doing is be condescending.
That being the case trying to argue you into not thinking like the monkeymind avatar in question would be equivalent to trying to convince Clippy that paperclips really aren’t all they are cracked up to be—pointless. If you admit (as you do above) that your account is a satirical role-play account rather than you sincerely expressing your ignorance then you shouldn’t expect people to be obliged to buy into your games. Feel free to retract the ‘yes’ at any time if you wish to be taken seriously.
If you role play an avatar that is bad at thinking it is inevitable that it will seem to you like people are treating you as if you are stupid.
Sorry, I did not understand what you meant by Clippy. Never heard of it b4, so I answered hastily. I use Monkeymind everywhere. I used this avatar originally when discussing evolution with theists, and just kept the name.
I am being serious, and so obviously my questions are serious, and they must be good ones because so far, there have been few reasonable answers. One may say that it is because I truly do not understand the topic(s). Feel free to set me straight any time, rather than just telling me I don’t understand.
If you would like to show me where my ignorance lies or that my thinking is flawed, I would appreciate it. I don’t like being wrong, but I don’t mind being corrected. In fact, I desire it so that I do not have to continue holding on to outdated or non-useful explanations.
However, let me state that I do not necessarily think there is a wrong or a right conclusion to the scientific method. Just explanations which are rational or not rational. Explanations that make sense or do not make sense. If this is the flaw in my thinking you are alluding to, then feel free to make a case for that. If it is about the thot experiment of computer generated amplitudes being fired at make believe half-silvered mirrors, then I am all ears.
Theoretical physics is conceptual. Technology (mostly trial & error) is empirical.
Maybe in the process, I will learn something and I can help you realize the limitations of math and the current state of your (apparently collective) understanding and use of the scientific method.
Thankyou. Your outrage didn’t seem to fit with your affirmation so I thought I’d give you a chance to re-answer.
I strongly recommend that you find a physicist and say this to them. They will almost certainly disagree, because making successful predictions is what science is all about. Theories explain, yes, but they do so by offering a mechanism or creating a model for how something works, and the only way to tell if that model is correct is by seeing if it can accurately predict reality. To invent an accurate post hoc explanation if you need the ability to test its validity, and the only way to do that is to see what advance predictions it makes and test those. This is, of course, the reason scientists perform experiments.
Again, I strongly recommend you speak to a physicist about this, because it just isn’t true. In the meantime, take a look at this LW post, which is a clear example of how a mathematical theory of physics, in this case Newtonian physics, can make predictions.
This is my hypothesis. The things it deals with aren’t “objects” in the way the word “objects” is usually used, because the term generally refers to things made up of more than one atom, and QM describes things at a much lower level. However, QM does helpfully provide precise mathematical rules for how these sub-atomic things behave, some of which are outlined in the original post. We know that this explanation is true, at least to a certain degree of approximation, because of its experimental success at predicting some of the things you listed (double slit experiments, etc.). You can talk all you want about how much this doesn’t “make sense,” but the fact remains, the mathematical model outlined in QM is extremely good at predicting reality, which strongly suggests that it really does describe what’s really true.
x
Um, and what’s your point?
The point is QM has to invent non-existent massless particles to make their math come out. Nature could care less about mathematical constructs or models.
And BTW, speaking of point, can you define point for me? Everyone here seems to want to tell me what I don’t understand. Perhaps you can educate me.
I’m actually not sure if you want me to define ‘point’ as in ‘zero-dimensional particle’ or point as in ‘what do you mean.’
Nature could care less about whether you can intuitively understand it, too.