Would you say that “Alice going to a networking event” (assume she’s doing it socially conventional/appropriate ways) would count as structural power-seeking? And would you discourage her from going?
I think you’re doing a paradox of the heap here. One grain of sand is obviously not a heap, but a million obviously is. Similarly, Alice going to one networking event is obviously not power-seeking, but Alice taking every opportunity she can to pitch herself to the most powerful people she can find obviously is. I’m identifying a pattern of behavior that AI safety exhibits significantly more than other communities, and the fair analogy is to a pattern of behavior that Alice exhibits significantly more than other people around her.
I’m also a bit worried about a motte-and-bailey here. The bold statement is “power-seeking (which I’m kind of defining as anything that increases your influence, regardless of how innocuous or socially accepted it seems) is bad because it triggers defense mechanisms”
I flagged several times in the post that I was not claiming that power-seeking is bad overall, just that it typically has this one bad effect.
the more moderated statement is “there are some specific ways of seeking power that have important social costs, and I think that some/many actors in the community underestimate those costs
I repudiated this position in my previous comment, where I flagged that I’m trying to make a claim not about specific ways of seeking power, but rather about the outcome of gaining power in general.
I think you’re doing a paradox of the heap here. One grain of sand is obviously not a heap, but a million obviously is. Similarly, Alice going to one networking event is obviously not power-seeking, but Alice taking every opportunity she can to pitch herself to the most powerful people she can find obviously is. I’m identifying a pattern of behavior that AI safety exhibits significantly more than other communities, and the fair analogy is to a pattern of behavior that Alice exhibits significantly more than other people around her.
I flagged several times in the post that I was not claiming that power-seeking is bad overall, just that it typically has this one bad effect.
I repudiated this position in my previous comment, where I flagged that I’m trying to make a claim not about specific ways of seeking power, but rather about the outcome of gaining power in general.