Hitler had goals, and by the means he had at his disposal, he was highly rational in achieving those goals (this does not mean that he was rational in the sense of being sane).
What is the meaning of “sane”, then? Conforming to the majority?
What is the meaning of “sane”, then? Conforming to the majority?
That does seem to be how it is used in practice. Modified in the direction of ‘conforming to the will of the most powerful’. It is, of course, a lot harder to be ‘insane’ when you are rich or well connected.
It is, of course, a lot harder to be ‘insane’ when you are rich or well connected.
How I wish that this were not the case (well, maybe it isn’t, but it sure does seem to be so).
Michael Murdock comes to mind. Rich, powerful, and has a values system that seems to run so contrary to the greater good, and even though it may seem to be conforming to a majority (although I do not think it actually is) it could be said to be just as insane as Hitler (although perhaps less psychotic—The jury is still out on that one though).
But, to reign it back in a little bit. Murdock has a system of beliefs whereby he is pursuing a course of action based upon those beliefs. Some would define that as rational. Yet, he is influencing what is seen as sane by modifying what is seen as:
conforming to the will of the most powerful’
This may seen completely tangential, but Michael Murdock was the very first thing I thought of when I saw that comment (which led directly into GW Bush, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and so forth...) These people created a definition of sanity that includes such things as marginalizing those who have pursued a path of what this site defines as Epistemic Rationality (and any sort of behavior that is seen as Intellectual, or Academic), marginalizing those who do not conform to a similar belief system (rather than attempting to reach a consensus with those who disagree, attack them as being evil), and those who do not conform to a religious ideology that supports the definitions of evil mentioned before...
Agh! I am so angry now that I cannot remember what my point was. Earlier tonight, I had to defend a very intelligent 14 year old against his own “friends” (He is the son of my best friend) who were all castigating him as having been indoctrinated into atheism (even though he refuses to accept their definition of his beliefs or lack of them), and many other completely irrational and hateful things…
I will come back to this post when I can remember my point, because I swear there was one.
(I keeping this post intact so that I will be able to recall my original thoughts as well)
These people created a definition of sanity that includes [...]
Created? This is a good description of most people in most places at most times, throughout history. Better to think of them as countering the historically, geographically and (even today) demographically small and abnormal phenomenon of rationality, pursuit of truth and tolerating dissident opinions.
Oh! Good point. I guess that I need to define that a bit better. Yet, I am not certain how to word it.
Conforming to the Majority might be one was of defining sanity, as would conforming to what we think of as moral (moral sanity).
Yet, ultimately, I think that I used the wrong word there. I think that I need to look for a new word or definition. His rationality did not conform to the norms of society as a whole, and his rationality was based upon a foundation that did not make sense outside of his insular world.
So, maybe the conforming to the majority is a good definition. I need to think about that
His rationality did not conform to the norms of society as a whole, and his rationality was based upon a foundation that did not make sense outside of his insular world.
If his “insular” world is taken to include Greater Germany, where many (possibly most) people agreed with his views, it’s not all that insular.
I am referring more to the elite crowd of yes-men with which he surrounded himself. especially later in the war.
From what I have been told by my family (some of whom were in Germany and Fought on the side of the Nazis), not everyone was aware of the extent to which Hitler was prepared to take the country in order to achieve his goals. His public face differed from that he showed in Private. His public face was that of a much saner person than was his private face.
It was his private world that I am referring to as Insular, based entirely upon the stories I have been told about what it was like to have lived through that time, and which did not make sense to those outside of that world once they became aware of it.
You are correct though, that pretty much all of Germany was behind the man, and cooperated with his goals. I know that my Uncle had not read Mien Kampf until the end of the War, and related that had he (and many of his friends) read it earlier, they might have been more reluctant to support Hitler. He related it to how many people read the Bible. They tend to skip over the bits that conflict with their personal values and only read the bits that confirm what they already believe.
What is the meaning of “sane”, then? Conforming to the majority?
Ability to not believe things that are blatantly obviously false.
That does seem to be how it is used in practice. Modified in the direction of ‘conforming to the will of the most powerful’. It is, of course, a lot harder to be ‘insane’ when you are rich or well connected.
How I wish that this were not the case (well, maybe it isn’t, but it sure does seem to be so).
Michael Murdock comes to mind. Rich, powerful, and has a values system that seems to run so contrary to the greater good, and even though it may seem to be conforming to a majority (although I do not think it actually is) it could be said to be just as insane as Hitler (although perhaps less psychotic—The jury is still out on that one though).
But, to reign it back in a little bit. Murdock has a system of beliefs whereby he is pursuing a course of action based upon those beliefs. Some would define that as rational. Yet, he is influencing what is seen as sane by modifying what is seen as:
This may seen completely tangential, but Michael Murdock was the very first thing I thought of when I saw that comment (which led directly into GW Bush, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and so forth...) These people created a definition of sanity that includes such things as marginalizing those who have pursued a path of what this site defines as Epistemic Rationality (and any sort of behavior that is seen as Intellectual, or Academic), marginalizing those who do not conform to a similar belief system (rather than attempting to reach a consensus with those who disagree, attack them as being evil), and those who do not conform to a religious ideology that supports the definitions of evil mentioned before...
Agh! I am so angry now that I cannot remember what my point was. Earlier tonight, I had to defend a very intelligent 14 year old against his own “friends” (He is the son of my best friend) who were all castigating him as having been indoctrinated into atheism (even though he refuses to accept their definition of his beliefs or lack of them), and many other completely irrational and hateful things…
I will come back to this post when I can remember my point, because I swear there was one.
(I keeping this post intact so that I will be able to recall my original thoughts as well)
Created? This is a good description of most people in most places at most times, throughout history. Better to think of them as countering the historically, geographically and (even today) demographically small and abnormal phenomenon of rationality, pursuit of truth and tolerating dissident opinions.
Oh! Good point. I guess that I need to define that a bit better. Yet, I am not certain how to word it.
Conforming to the Majority might be one was of defining sanity, as would conforming to what we think of as moral (moral sanity).
Yet, ultimately, I think that I used the wrong word there. I think that I need to look for a new word or definition. His rationality did not conform to the norms of society as a whole, and his rationality was based upon a foundation that did not make sense outside of his insular world.
So, maybe the conforming to the majority is a good definition. I need to think about that
If his “insular” world is taken to include Greater Germany, where many (possibly most) people agreed with his views, it’s not all that insular.
I am referring more to the elite crowd of yes-men with which he surrounded himself. especially later in the war.
From what I have been told by my family (some of whom were in Germany and Fought on the side of the Nazis), not everyone was aware of the extent to which Hitler was prepared to take the country in order to achieve his goals. His public face differed from that he showed in Private. His public face was that of a much saner person than was his private face.
It was his private world that I am referring to as Insular, based entirely upon the stories I have been told about what it was like to have lived through that time, and which did not make sense to those outside of that world once they became aware of it.
You are correct though, that pretty much all of Germany was behind the man, and cooperated with his goals. I know that my Uncle had not read Mien Kampf until the end of the War, and related that had he (and many of his friends) read it earlier, they might have been more reluctant to support Hitler. He related it to how many people read the Bible. They tend to skip over the bits that conflict with their personal values and only read the bits that confirm what they already believe.