Much less than you think; the “neg” is only a small and unnecessary part of structured game.
I wasn’t thinking only of negs, but also of freeze-outs, compliance frames (e.g. “introduce your friends, it’s the polite thing to do”), qualification hoops (“so what makes you so special?”), etc. Even the use of lock-in props can be tied to self-esteem (“you’re not a thief, right?”).
This is what I’m referring to, in that women with higher self-esteem have a lower tolerance for these things, when used by someone who lacks an adequate sense of humor or self-esteem of their own. Whereas women with lower self-esteem will feel more compelled to respond and jump through the hoops, not because of the guy, but because her own emotions give her no other choice—even if she then hates herself afterward for her actions.
Self-esteem of course is just a convenient buzzword; it may not precisely refer to the personality variable I’m describing. One author calls it “differentiation”—the ability to separate one’s self from the opinion of others, and notes that relationships between people with two widely-separated levels of differentiation won’t last long. I’ve experienced it myself, both from the high- and low-differentiation positions.
It’s technically possible to have low self-esteem in some ways, and yet still have high differentiation, so self-esteem is probably the wrong word to use. I just didn’t want, early in the discussion, to have to spell out the definition of another word when self-esteem was reasonably close.
Anyway, this is what I was trying to say: a low-differentiation PUA will get low-differentiation partners, because those are the only ones they’ll be able to hook and keep. And the field of game training has moved increasingly towards teaching things that increase differentiation: i.e., non-reactivity, lack of outcome dependence, strong personal frames, etc.
And the field of game training has moved increasingly towards teaching things that increase differentiation: i.e., non-reactivity, lack of outcome dependence, strong personal frames, etc.
This is exactly what I am planning on teaching. I believe that structured game is mostly for people who already have these things, but are at a loss when it comes to what they need to do once in front of a woman. But the majority of people who need help lack skill in both areas.
Another personality variable that might come into play is a person’s self-monitoring behavior.
Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Looks like a useful site, too.
I believe that structured game is mostly for people who already have these things, but are at a loss when it comes to what they need to do once in front of a woman.
Perhaps, but from a marketing perspective, even the guys who don’t have those things look for “magic pickup lines” first before considering improving themselves.
But this is wandering way off topic now, especially since we now basically agree. ;-)
I wasn’t thinking only of negs, but also of freeze-outs, compliance frames (e.g. “introduce your friends, it’s the polite thing to do”), qualification hoops (“so what makes you so special?”), etc. Even the use of lock-in props can be tied to self-esteem (“you’re not a thief, right?”).
This is what I’m referring to, in that women with higher self-esteem have a lower tolerance for these things, when used by someone who lacks an adequate sense of humor or self-esteem of their own. Whereas women with lower self-esteem will feel more compelled to respond and jump through the hoops, not because of the guy, but because her own emotions give her no other choice—even if she then hates herself afterward for her actions.
Self-esteem of course is just a convenient buzzword; it may not precisely refer to the personality variable I’m describing. One author calls it “differentiation”—the ability to separate one’s self from the opinion of others, and notes that relationships between people with two widely-separated levels of differentiation won’t last long. I’ve experienced it myself, both from the high- and low-differentiation positions.
It’s technically possible to have low self-esteem in some ways, and yet still have high differentiation, so self-esteem is probably the wrong word to use. I just didn’t want, early in the discussion, to have to spell out the definition of another word when self-esteem was reasonably close.
Anyway, this is what I was trying to say: a low-differentiation PUA will get low-differentiation partners, because those are the only ones they’ll be able to hook and keep. And the field of game training has moved increasingly towards teaching things that increase differentiation: i.e., non-reactivity, lack of outcome dependence, strong personal frames, etc.
I agree with you.
Another personality variable that might come into play is a person’s self-monitoring behavior.
This is exactly what I am planning on teaching. I believe that structured game is mostly for people who already have these things, but are at a loss when it comes to what they need to do once in front of a woman. But the majority of people who need help lack skill in both areas.
Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Looks like a useful site, too.
Perhaps, but from a marketing perspective, even the guys who don’t have those things look for “magic pickup lines” first before considering improving themselves.
But this is wandering way off topic now, especially since we now basically agree. ;-)