Apologies, you did not sound to me like a physics grad student when you said “CI should be classified as a fringe position and everyone should provisionally accept MWI”. (And “ad hominem” does not mean an insult, it means “I reject your logic based on who you are, rather than on what you say”.)
You seem to agree that MWI has fewer postulates, so given a choice between the two, why favor the collapse interpretation, or refuse to give any interpretation at all?
This is the crux of the issue. What do you gain by favoring one over another? My original point was that there is little to be gained
because you still have no definitive experiment that would convince your opponent. And so the argument becomes philosophical rather than physical, as it cannot be resolved by the scientific method.
I understand the Deutsch’s logic “but if only we had a reversible and “conscious” quantum computation, we could test it”, which assumes that we know what conscious means and whether it can be reversible, tying one difficult issue to another just as deep. Until the latter is resolved, the former is not really testable.
This is the crux of the issue. What do you gain by favoring one over another? My original point was that there is little to be gained.
I suppose one would only gain a simpler theory, since both theories predict the same thing. So from the perspective of neatness, I’d prefer to have one less postulate. From the persepctive of actually solving problems, none of this matters.
In fact, none of my professors throughout college ever brought up the topic of interpretation, except to say that it was complicated. I suppose that’s why I don’t sound like a grad student to you; though I can solve problems very well, everything I know about the interpretations of the theory I have gleaned from textbooks and the internet; I have yet to look at specific papers, or study it in depth.
Part of the reason I want to write more on this is to have an excuse to force myself to learn/study more on the issue; it is still possible to change my mind, after all.
Though on the issue of reversibility; if we accept the mind is capable of being simulated by a computer, and we had a computer that was made of Toffoli gates (or the quantum version, if such a thing exists), would that mind not then be reversible?
And thanks for pointing out my error on the use of ad hominem; I always forget that.
I suppose one would only gain a simpler theory, since both theories predict the same thing. So from the perspective of neatness, I’d prefer to have one less postulate. From the perspective of actually solving problems, none of this matters.
Right.
In fact, none of my professors throughout college ever brought up the topic of interpretation, except to say that it was complicated. I suppose that’s why I don’t sound like a grad student to you; though I can solve problems very well, everything I know about the interpretations of the theory I have gleaned from textbooks and the internet; I have yet to look at specific papers, or study it in depth.
I was in the same boat, having gone through all the undergrad and grad quantum courses without learning anything about ontology, except for the general unease with the Born postulate. This is a common situation. Only Quantum Information courses are sometimes different. And philosophy of physics, but I don’t take those seriously.
Part of the reason I want to write more on this is to have an excuse to force myself to learn/study more on the issue; it is still possible to change my mind, after all.
By all means, just make sure you don’t have a “favored interpretation” when you start, it will bias you without you noticing.
Though on the issue of reversibility; if we accept the mind is capable of being simulated by a computer, and we had a computer that was made of Toffoli gates (or the quantum version, if such a thing exists), would that mind not then be reversible?
There are arguments that dissipation and irreversibility is essential for consciousness. Whether they are any good will depend on what consciousness is. At this point we have very little to go on beyond “hopefully it can be simulated some day”.
Apologies, you did not sound to me like a physics grad student when you said “CI should be classified as a fringe position and everyone should provisionally accept MWI”. (And “ad hominem” does not mean an insult, it means “I reject your logic based on who you are, rather than on what you say”.)
This is the crux of the issue. What do you gain by favoring one over another? My original point was that there is little to be gained
I understand the Deutsch’s logic “but if only we had a reversible and “conscious” quantum computation, we could test it”, which assumes that we know what conscious means and whether it can be reversible, tying one difficult issue to another just as deep. Until the latter is resolved, the former is not really testable.
I suppose one would only gain a simpler theory, since both theories predict the same thing. So from the perspective of neatness, I’d prefer to have one less postulate. From the persepctive of actually solving problems, none of this matters.
In fact, none of my professors throughout college ever brought up the topic of interpretation, except to say that it was complicated. I suppose that’s why I don’t sound like a grad student to you; though I can solve problems very well, everything I know about the interpretations of the theory I have gleaned from textbooks and the internet; I have yet to look at specific papers, or study it in depth.
Part of the reason I want to write more on this is to have an excuse to force myself to learn/study more on the issue; it is still possible to change my mind, after all.
Though on the issue of reversibility; if we accept the mind is capable of being simulated by a computer, and we had a computer that was made of Toffoli gates (or the quantum version, if such a thing exists), would that mind not then be reversible?
And thanks for pointing out my error on the use of ad hominem; I always forget that.
Right.
I was in the same boat, having gone through all the undergrad and grad quantum courses without learning anything about ontology, except for the general unease with the Born postulate. This is a common situation. Only Quantum Information courses are sometimes different. And philosophy of physics, but I don’t take those seriously.
By all means, just make sure you don’t have a “favored interpretation” when you start, it will bias you without you noticing.
There are arguments that dissipation and irreversibility is essential for consciousness. Whether they are any good will depend on what consciousness is. At this point we have very little to go on beyond “hopefully it can be simulated some day”.
The results of that are kinda noticeable,