There is something objectively good about particular musical intervals, e.g., the octave, the 1-3-5 chord, that has to do with the ratios of their frequencies.
That has very, very little directly to do with the aesthetics of musical composition, however. Its implications are rather in the area of how humans interpret musical sounds: all else being equal, we tend to think of acoustically simple intervals (“consonances”) as being “more fundamental” than acoustically (more) complex intervals (“dissonances”), so that we interpret the latter in terms of the former, rather than vice-versa.
It’s a curious phenomenon that, throughout history, people have thought (i.e. written treatises as if) the key to musical composition is identifying which “atomic” musical materials “sound good” (and then stringing them together, one presumes). But that isn’t how it works at all. Musical composition operates on a higher level of abstraction; the treatment of intervals and so forth is just mechanics, like spelling words for a novelist.
(Whatever the reason is that you don’t like the Great Fugue, it isn’t because it doesn’t contain enough consonant intervals.)
The challenge of composition is, in my opinion, first establishing what the musical language or the vocabulary of the given work is, then developing an interesting narrative using that language. In common-practice tonality, the musical language is more or less a constant; modern composers, in the absence of the assumption that they are writing in common-practice tonality, have to make it clear what the language is—that is, what tonal relationships form the structure of the piece—as well as providing a coherent direction to the piece.
In a sense, in some modern idioms, the harmonicity of an interval or a chord is pretty irrelevant, once the intervallic or or chordal relationships the composer is using to create the piece are consistent and understandable. That said, harmonicity is an important part of how we hear music, so what intervals are used will of course affect the quality of the finish quality.
This is more or less the standard “party line”, and even makes a certain amount of sense on its own terms, but I think it’s actually wrong.
More specifically, I don’t think “common-practice tonality” is actually a thing, music-theoretically. The illusion that it is results in my view from two circumstances: (1) the high cultural prestige of European art music from approximately 1700-1900 (corresponding basically to an era when it happened to be dominated by Germans); and (2) the fact that more recent art music is less accessible to casual listeners due specifically to its complexity (i.e. not any difference in “musical language”, if we take that to mean the fundamental principles of musical comprehension).
I think there is a fundamental change in how Western Art Music is composed around the start of 20th century; the removal of the tonic-dominant relationship as the fundamental relationship within musical works is responisble for that. Of course, the Second Viennese School considered themselves successors to that traidition, not revolutionaries or iconoclasts, and I would be inclined to agree, but I do think that there is significant to music written before theirs and music written afterwards. I’ll readily admit this may just be down to how I’ve been taught, and I’m not a musicologist (though I do have some familiarity with different types of analysis).
What do you mean by “party line”? Which part specifically is the party line? Whose party line is it? The party line of musicologists, or the party line of contemporary composers? I find it hard to imagine there’s a party line for composers, given the composers I know and the biographies of some of the bigger composers of the last century. I’m interested because these are mainly conclusions I’ve come to on my own.
I agree there is a certain amount of German-centrism in the term “common-practice tonality”, but that itself doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I agree contemporary music is more complex (excluding minimalism and other obvious exceptions) and that is a factor in its accessibility, but also people’s familiarity with the common-practice tonal language gives (as popular music is based on this language too) them expectations as to what music should be like; music that does not follow these conventions is difficult for them to understand.
I think there is a fundamental change in how Western Art Music is composed around the start of 20th century; the removal of the tonic-dominant relationship
Yes, this is a proposition I reject. Don’t worry, I don’t expect my claim to be obvious; explaining it would be a rather involved technical discussion. A necessary first step would be the wholesale rejection of the traditional Rameau-Riemann theory of “chord progressions” in the explanation of earlier music, in favor of the kind of approach taken by Schenker and, later, Westergaard.
What do you mean by “party line”? Which part specifically is the party line? Whose party line is it? The party line of musicologists, or the party line of contemporary composers?
All of the above; particularly those of high status.
I agree there is a certain amount of German-centrism in the term “common-practice tonality”, but that itself doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
It definitely exists—but only as a historical cluster of musical works, and not as a theoretical category. From a theoretical point of view (again, my theoretical point of view, which is separated by considerable inferential distance from the memes of traditional music theory), there is little use for a category which includes Bach and early Schoenberg and excludes middle and late Schoenberg.
I’m not sure I understand enough about your point of view to say whether I agree with it; I’d be interested in learning more! Have you written anything on this topic?
Westergaard sounds awesome; I’ll check him out if I get a chance (will probably be next summer—post-thesis).
That has very, very little directly to do with the aesthetics of musical composition, however. Its implications are rather in the area of how humans interpret musical sounds: all else being equal, we tend to think of acoustically simple intervals (“consonances”) as being “more fundamental” than acoustically (more) complex intervals (“dissonances”), so that we interpret the latter in terms of the former, rather than vice-versa.
It’s a curious phenomenon that, throughout history, people have thought (i.e. written treatises as if) the key to musical composition is identifying which “atomic” musical materials “sound good” (and then stringing them together, one presumes). But that isn’t how it works at all. Musical composition operates on a higher level of abstraction; the treatment of intervals and so forth is just mechanics, like spelling words for a novelist.
(Whatever the reason is that you don’t like the Great Fugue, it isn’t because it doesn’t contain enough consonant intervals.)
The challenge of composition is, in my opinion, first establishing what the musical language or the vocabulary of the given work is, then developing an interesting narrative using that language. In common-practice tonality, the musical language is more or less a constant; modern composers, in the absence of the assumption that they are writing in common-practice tonality, have to make it clear what the language is—that is, what tonal relationships form the structure of the piece—as well as providing a coherent direction to the piece.
In a sense, in some modern idioms, the harmonicity of an interval or a chord is pretty irrelevant, once the intervallic or or chordal relationships the composer is using to create the piece are consistent and understandable. That said, harmonicity is an important part of how we hear music, so what intervals are used will of course affect the quality of the finish quality.
This is more or less the standard “party line”, and even makes a certain amount of sense on its own terms, but I think it’s actually wrong.
More specifically, I don’t think “common-practice tonality” is actually a thing, music-theoretically. The illusion that it is results in my view from two circumstances: (1) the high cultural prestige of European art music from approximately 1700-1900 (corresponding basically to an era when it happened to be dominated by Germans); and (2) the fact that more recent art music is less accessible to casual listeners due specifically to its complexity (i.e. not any difference in “musical language”, if we take that to mean the fundamental principles of musical comprehension).
I think there is a fundamental change in how Western Art Music is composed around the start of 20th century; the removal of the tonic-dominant relationship as the fundamental relationship within musical works is responisble for that. Of course, the Second Viennese School considered themselves successors to that traidition, not revolutionaries or iconoclasts, and I would be inclined to agree, but I do think that there is significant to music written before theirs and music written afterwards. I’ll readily admit this may just be down to how I’ve been taught, and I’m not a musicologist (though I do have some familiarity with different types of analysis).
What do you mean by “party line”? Which part specifically is the party line? Whose party line is it? The party line of musicologists, or the party line of contemporary composers? I find it hard to imagine there’s a party line for composers, given the composers I know and the biographies of some of the bigger composers of the last century. I’m interested because these are mainly conclusions I’ve come to on my own.
I agree there is a certain amount of German-centrism in the term “common-practice tonality”, but that itself doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I agree contemporary music is more complex (excluding minimalism and other obvious exceptions) and that is a factor in its accessibility, but also people’s familiarity with the common-practice tonal language gives (as popular music is based on this language too) them expectations as to what music should be like; music that does not follow these conventions is difficult for them to understand.
Yes, this is a proposition I reject. Don’t worry, I don’t expect my claim to be obvious; explaining it would be a rather involved technical discussion. A necessary first step would be the wholesale rejection of the traditional Rameau-Riemann theory of “chord progressions” in the explanation of earlier music, in favor of the kind of approach taken by Schenker and, later, Westergaard.
All of the above; particularly those of high status.
It definitely exists—but only as a historical cluster of musical works, and not as a theoretical category. From a theoretical point of view (again, my theoretical point of view, which is separated by considerable inferential distance from the memes of traditional music theory), there is little use for a category which includes Bach and early Schoenberg and excludes middle and late Schoenberg.
Cheers for clarifying that!
I’m not sure I understand enough about your point of view to say whether I agree with it; I’d be interested in learning more! Have you written anything on this topic?
Westergaard sounds awesome; I’ll check him out if I get a chance (will probably be next summer—post-thesis).
Look, there’s a bug in the website—it fails to switch background colors when reaching the 10th level of nested comments!