There is a more interesting implication in that section actually.
Light glinted from the reflection of Albus’s half-moon glasses as the old wizard slowly shook his head. “I think that would be unwise,” Albus said. “For reasons beyond the obvious. It is dangerous, that place which Merlin made; more dangerous to some people than others.”
‘To some people than others’ implies Harry. Ergo, it would be more dangerous for Harry to go there.
Ergo, there are other things in the Hall of Prophecy which would effect Harry.
Ergo, there are more Prophecies about Harry there. We already know or can suspect one, the HE IS COMING one. (Which incidentally I suspect is ‘TEAR APART THE VERY FABRIC OF SPACE AND TIME’ and that [rot13] Gur Zna Haqre gur Ung, naq gur bevtvangbe bs n ohapu bs gurfr cynaf vf n Shgher Uneel jub unf tbggra nebhaq Gvzr Gheare erfgevpgvbaf. Ur shpxrq fbzrguvat hc naq vf gelvat gb svk vg, be ur qvqa’g naq ernyvmrq gung ur arrqrq gb qb gurfr guvatf gb rafher uvf bja gvzryvar.)
Also from this, since Dumbledore will not take him there, we can assume that whatever it is that Harry might discover there would be detrimental to Dumbledore.
On a meta note, it is also a reason (beyond the many others) for which Eleizer would have had to deny Harry a phoenix. Far too much freedom of movement for the plot to remain on any semblance of rails.
That seems to apply to actively trying to catch an orb, and succeeding. If you just stand about, any orbs relevant to you will come to you freely, no action required. So Dumbledore can see whether the prophecy speaks of him without having his head explode; but if it doesn’t, can’t personally check the wording.
… a great room of shelves filled with glowing orbs, one after another appearing over the years. (...) Those mentioned within a prophecy would have an glowing orb float to their hand, and then hear the prophet’s true voice speaking.
I interpret it as: Anyone who enters this room sees a glowing orb float to their hand for every prophecy that mentions them. How do you interpret it?
I took it as meaning that the orbs visited anyone mentioned in a prophecy before the Unspeakables sealed the Hall precisely to prevent people from learning of the prophecy they were in.
If you had to know that a prophecy was made involving you and travel to the Hall of your own volition, that would be essentially useless by Merlin’s lights (‘because knowing is half the battle!’) since the only ones who would know this in advance would be the prophecy hearers and their allies, and what’s the point of that? If you were setting up a system to screw with Destiny, you’d arrange for the system to tell all involved automatically!
We know that the glowy orbs are trapped because no one in the story mentions or see them happening: Snape does not mention globes coming to him nor does McGonagall nor anyone else, Voldemort has to be informed by Snape, neither Harry nor Quirrel nor anyone else receive orbs from Trelawney’s second cut-off prophecy (perhaps the real reason that Dumbledore doesn’t want to take Harry to the Hall), and Dumbledore has to personally take Harry’s parents to the Hall to hear their copies.
If you were setting up a system to screw with Destiny, you’d arrange for the system to tell all involved automatically!
It’s also plausible to me that the orbs were always restricted to the Hall, but the system worked because every wizard could Apparate there for a couple of minutes every few weeks to check if there were any new prophecies about them, and that was a lot better than nothing.
Well, it’s better than nothing, but it still sounds pretty silly. It’d be like if the Interdict of Merlin operated as a gradual amnesia and every few weeks you had to apparate to a Hall of Memory to retrieve your lost memories from an uber-pensieve (minus, of course, any powerful spells you might’ve learned) - it’s weirdly roundabout, and has obvious failure modes.
Sounds right, but the present-day situation is the same: orbs may float to you if and only if you enter the Hall. So Dumbledore should know whether he is involved in the prophecy or not. Unless I missed something?
The easiest way to stop the floating is to stop the floating entirely, in which case entering the hall wouldn’t necessarily help.
And we don’t know Dumbledore has entered the hall or not, for that matter: he may not be willing to risk another break-in for anything short of Voldemort itself, Trelawney’s second prophecy may seem benign, or he fears that hearing the prophecy may narrow down his options or some other harm.
Or maybe Trelawney stopped speaking after he teleported her away, and that proved the prophecy wasn’t about him but about someone who was left in the Great Hall.
That’s a good point. Actually, don’t we have some vignettes of Trelawney under prophetic pressure after that incident? That would explain the lack of any Hall action, if the prophecy is not yet done.
Still leaves Dumbledore a mystery: if Trelawney stopped after teleporting away, and this proves it wasn’t about Dumbledore, then what is stopping him from sitting in Trelawney’s office and one by one summoning suspects until she suddenly bursts out the rest?
I was probably just wrong, though gwern makes a good point. I think I was imagining people actively summoning an orb.
While we’re on the topic, though, note that self-fulfilling prophecies seem easier for the Unspeakables to detect (and decide to prevent) than do “temporal pressures”.
Shouldn’t Minerva see another implication, that Dumbledore has no reason to wonder whether he is the dark lord of the prophecy?
There is a more interesting implication in that section actually.
‘To some people than others’ implies Harry. Ergo, it would be more dangerous for Harry to go there.
Ergo, there are other things in the Hall of Prophecy which would effect Harry.
Ergo, there are more Prophecies about Harry there. We already know or can suspect one, the HE IS COMING one. (Which incidentally I suspect is ‘TEAR APART THE VERY FABRIC OF SPACE AND TIME’ and that [rot13] Gur Zna Haqre gur Ung, naq gur bevtvangbe bs n ohapu bs gurfr cynaf vf n Shgher Uneel jub unf tbggra nebhaq Gvzr Gheare erfgevpgvbaf. Ur shpxrq fbzrguvat hc naq vf gelvat gb svk vg, be ur qvqa’g naq ernyvmrq gung ur arrqrq gb qb gurfr guvatf gb rafher uvf bja gvzryvar.)
Also from this, since Dumbledore will not take him there, we can assume that whatever it is that Harry might discover there would be detrimental to Dumbledore.
On a meta note, it is also a reason (beyond the many others) for which Eleizer would have had to deny Harry a phoenix. Far too much freedom of movement for the plot to remain on any semblance of rails.
I’m pretty sure this is actually just Albus being well aware of Harry’s nature, including his curiositiy and inclination to test things.
Also known as Harry’s Chaos Factor.
I support the adoption of this label for Harry’s Harr(i? y?)ness,
Surely that only applies if Albus tested it.
That seems to apply to actively trying to catch an orb, and succeeding. If you just stand about, any orbs relevant to you will come to you freely, no action required. So Dumbledore can see whether the prophecy speaks of him without having his head explode; but if it doesn’t, can’t personally check the wording.
...I have a wildly different interpretation of the text.
I interpret it as: Anyone who enters this room sees a glowing orb float to their hand for every prophecy that mentions them. How do you interpret it?
I took it as meaning that the orbs visited anyone mentioned in a prophecy before the Unspeakables sealed the Hall precisely to prevent people from learning of the prophecy they were in.
If you had to know that a prophecy was made involving you and travel to the Hall of your own volition, that would be essentially useless by Merlin’s lights (‘because knowing is half the battle!’) since the only ones who would know this in advance would be the prophecy hearers and their allies, and what’s the point of that? If you were setting up a system to screw with Destiny, you’d arrange for the system to tell all involved automatically!
We know that the glowy orbs are trapped because no one in the story mentions or see them happening: Snape does not mention globes coming to him nor does McGonagall nor anyone else, Voldemort has to be informed by Snape, neither Harry nor Quirrel nor anyone else receive orbs from Trelawney’s second cut-off prophecy (perhaps the real reason that Dumbledore doesn’t want to take Harry to the Hall), and Dumbledore has to personally take Harry’s parents to the Hall to hear their copies.
It’s also plausible to me that the orbs were always restricted to the Hall, but the system worked because every wizard could Apparate there for a couple of minutes every few weeks to check if there were any new prophecies about them, and that was a lot better than nothing.
Well, it’s better than nothing, but it still sounds pretty silly. It’d be like if the Interdict of Merlin operated as a gradual amnesia and every few weeks you had to apparate to a Hall of Memory to retrieve your lost memories from an uber-pensieve (minus, of course, any powerful spells you might’ve learned) - it’s weirdly roundabout, and has obvious failure modes.
Sounds right, but the present-day situation is the same: orbs may float to you if and only if you enter the Hall. So Dumbledore should know whether he is involved in the prophecy or not. Unless I missed something?
The easiest way to stop the floating is to stop the floating entirely, in which case entering the hall wouldn’t necessarily help.
And we don’t know Dumbledore has entered the hall or not, for that matter: he may not be willing to risk another break-in for anything short of Voldemort itself, Trelawney’s second prophecy may seem benign, or he fears that hearing the prophecy may narrow down his options or some other harm.
Or maybe Trelawney stopped speaking after he teleported her away, and that proved the prophecy wasn’t about him but about someone who was left in the Great Hall.
That’s a good point. Actually, don’t we have some vignettes of Trelawney under prophetic pressure after that incident? That would explain the lack of any Hall action, if the prophecy is not yet done.
Still leaves Dumbledore a mystery: if Trelawney stopped after teleporting away, and this proves it wasn’t about Dumbledore, then what is stopping him from sitting in Trelawney’s office and one by one summoning suspects until she suddenly bursts out the rest?
I was probably just wrong, though gwern makes a good point. I think I was imagining people actively summoning an orb.
While we’re on the topic, though, note that self-fulfilling prophecies seem easier for the Unspeakables to detect (and decide to prevent) than do “temporal pressures”.