Wait a bit please. I am under the impression the defeating the villain worked very well for Western Europe after WW2? Or maybe that is the issue, that that kind of historical experience generated this kind of generalization even in situations where it doesn’t apply?
It should not be too hard to make heuristics for it. The more power is concentrated into a few hands the more likely defeating them will change something. You can defeat a few big villains, many small ones not.
Big win for Western Europe, needed another 50 years to settle out in Eastern Europe due to that Stalin issue. And a significant cause of WWII was the epilogue of WWI. As a cartoonishly over the top supervillain that really happened, WWII Germany serves as an example of how this problem comes about, how just defeating the villain can go well when there were good institutions being suppressed, and how it can leave half a continent still oppressed by the next, subtly worse dictator for generations.
True. I was suggesting that Stalin was “subtly worse” than Hitler, in that he managed to kill far more people without raising as much international outcry.
when there were good institutions being suppressed
Arguably the institutions of Germany were not really that good. Hardly any experience with democracy and not too positive ones before (hyperinflation...). It was not really a falling back to something working situation. One could say that the everyday culture was functional, because it was broadly speaking hard-working and precise and organized, so it could be channeled into an economic wonder, it had the pedalling for that, but the steering had to be invented from the ground up i.e. the political institutions. Actually it surprising how a well done political system was drawn up what a short time.
Italy is an even more interesting experience because post-WW2 Italian politics has always been a mess, unstable governments collapsing in weeks and all that, and yet arguably it was a good period of their history, the whole Vespa-Lamborghini-Fiat-Lollobrigida movies-fashion industry era, it was arguably a productive era, not one of general lethargy. Italians thought politics sucks, shrugged, and went on making interesting things instead of sitting around waiting for someone to fix politics.
Again, it can be understood as falling back to non-political, everyday cultural institutions and norms, of course.
Arguably the institutions of Germany were not really that good.
Sorry I was unclear. I was characterizing the institutions of neighboring countries as being suppressed. I’m not sure how far you’d need to fall back to find something “working” in Germany (pre-Weimar, so pre-WWI, so … how far back do we want to go here?).
Wait a bit please. I am under the impression the defeating the villain worked very well for Western Europe after WW2?
Mainly because nuclear weapons meant that no one wanted to start another major European war. Take those away, and there would almost certainly have been a third world war shortly afterward. Instead, they got the Cold War.
Eastern Europe, meanwhile, got to trade Nazi occupation for Soviet satellite status.
Wait a bit please. I am under the impression the defeating the villain worked very well for Western Europe after WW2? Or maybe that is the issue, that that kind of historical experience generated this kind of generalization even in situations where it doesn’t apply?
It should not be too hard to make heuristics for it. The more power is concentrated into a few hands the more likely defeating them will change something. You can defeat a few big villains, many small ones not.
Big win for Western Europe, needed another 50 years to settle out in Eastern Europe due to that Stalin issue. And a significant cause of WWII was the epilogue of WWI. As a cartoonishly over the top supervillain that really happened, WWII Germany serves as an example of how this problem comes about, how just defeating the villain can go well when there were good institutions being suppressed, and how it can leave half a continent still oppressed by the next, subtly worse dictator for generations.
There was nothing subtle about Uncle Joe :(.
True. I was suggesting that Stalin was “subtly worse” than Hitler, in that he managed to kill far more people without raising as much international outcry.
Understate much?
Arguably the institutions of Germany were not really that good. Hardly any experience with democracy and not too positive ones before (hyperinflation...). It was not really a falling back to something working situation. One could say that the everyday culture was functional, because it was broadly speaking hard-working and precise and organized, so it could be channeled into an economic wonder, it had the pedalling for that, but the steering had to be invented from the ground up i.e. the political institutions. Actually it surprising how a well done political system was drawn up what a short time.
Italy is an even more interesting experience because post-WW2 Italian politics has always been a mess, unstable governments collapsing in weeks and all that, and yet arguably it was a good period of their history, the whole Vespa-Lamborghini-Fiat-Lollobrigida movies-fashion industry era, it was arguably a productive era, not one of general lethargy. Italians thought politics sucks, shrugged, and went on making interesting things instead of sitting around waiting for someone to fix politics.
Again, it can be understood as falling back to non-political, everyday cultural institutions and norms, of course.
Sorry I was unclear. I was characterizing the institutions of neighboring countries as being suppressed. I’m not sure how far you’d need to fall back to find something “working” in Germany (pre-Weimar, so pre-WWI, so … how far back do we want to go here?).
You are, of course, reading history written by the victors...
Mainly because nuclear weapons meant that no one wanted to start another major European war. Take those away, and there would almost certainly have been a third world war shortly afterward. Instead, they got the Cold War.
Eastern Europe, meanwhile, got to trade Nazi occupation for Soviet satellite status.