I think they used to be slower up to 1968 or so. Things got a bit confused since then, since the general social change outcome of the era is broadly liberal, but one should not forget the radical students were e.g. Maoists which is not a liberal ideology at all. So it seems, that liberal changes are made not simply by liberals arguing for them (who may accept going slower) but as a way to de-fang left radicalism. Something similar is happening even today. Since liberal arguments against gay marriage exist, the push to go fast on it cannot possibly come from true liberalism but from some kind of a radical wing.
This radicalism is a but difficult to pin down today. Things were a bit easier back when Mao’s little red book was a student fashion item because you could more or less glean a clearly stated ideology and goals from it. Today it is a bit strange because a radicalism exists without a clear goal other than ending oppression, but that is not very clearly defined. Partially borrowings from anarchism can be identified. Intersectionality, kyriarchy sounds like to me ideas that were at least partially taken from anarchism. It is possible that today there is an form of an anarchist radicalism going on, but it is less clear than before as it does not really identify as one.
This idea came to me when I was reading Alfie Kohn’s articles. I have never seen him identify as an anarchist but still I know actual anarchists like his works, and they sound a lot like that kind of too-fast liberalism you complain about, so it is possible it is a kind of anarchist radicalism without the name.
Since liberal arguments against gay marriage exist, the push to go fast on it cannot possibly come from true liberalism
Surely that inference is wrong. It would be a reasonable deduction from “the liberal arguments against same-sex marriage are stronger than those in favour”, but not from “liberal arguments against same-sex marriage exist”. In fact, even the former would be dubious; the arguments might be strong but not generally known, for instance; or strong but not generally recognized as such.
My impression of the liberally-inclined people I know is that those who are aware of alleged liberal arguments against same-sex marriage generally think they’re bad arguments. So I think that for your inference to work, it would need to be true (1) that there are in fact good liberal arguments against same-sex marriage and (2) that being motivated by “true liberalism” implies being aware of all good arguments and evaluating them correctly. Of these, #1 is surely possible but #2 is absolutely ridiculous, no?
I had a quick look at the article linked above. It seems to me that its arguments against same-sex marriage are neither very good nor very liberal. Of course I could be wrong, but if I’m not crazy or stupid to evaluate them that way then they can’t show that my preference for “marriage equality” makes me part of, or deceived by, a radical wing rather than a “true liberal”.
I think they used to be slower up to 1968 or so. Things got a bit confused since then, since the general social change outcome of the era is broadly liberal, but one should not forget the radical students were e.g. Maoists which is not a liberal ideology at all. So it seems, that liberal changes are made not simply by liberals arguing for them (who may accept going slower) but as a way to de-fang left radicalism. Something similar is happening even today. Since liberal arguments against gay marriage exist, the push to go fast on it cannot possibly come from true liberalism but from some kind of a radical wing.
This radicalism is a but difficult to pin down today. Things were a bit easier back when Mao’s little red book was a student fashion item because you could more or less glean a clearly stated ideology and goals from it. Today it is a bit strange because a radicalism exists without a clear goal other than ending oppression, but that is not very clearly defined. Partially borrowings from anarchism can be identified. Intersectionality, kyriarchy sounds like to me ideas that were at least partially taken from anarchism. It is possible that today there is an form of an anarchist radicalism going on, but it is less clear than before as it does not really identify as one.
This idea came to me when I was reading Alfie Kohn’s articles. I have never seen him identify as an anarchist but still I know actual anarchists like his works, and they sound a lot like that kind of too-fast liberalism you complain about, so it is possible it is a kind of anarchist radicalism without the name.
Surely that inference is wrong. It would be a reasonable deduction from “the liberal arguments against same-sex marriage are stronger than those in favour”, but not from “liberal arguments against same-sex marriage exist”. In fact, even the former would be dubious; the arguments might be strong but not generally known, for instance; or strong but not generally recognized as such.
My impression of the liberally-inclined people I know is that those who are aware of alleged liberal arguments against same-sex marriage generally think they’re bad arguments. So I think that for your inference to work, it would need to be true (1) that there are in fact good liberal arguments against same-sex marriage and (2) that being motivated by “true liberalism” implies being aware of all good arguments and evaluating them correctly. Of these, #1 is surely possible but #2 is absolutely ridiculous, no?
I had a quick look at the article linked above. It seems to me that its arguments against same-sex marriage are neither very good nor very liberal. Of course I could be wrong, but if I’m not crazy or stupid to evaluate them that way then they can’t show that my preference for “marriage equality” makes me part of, or deceived by, a radical wing rather than a “true liberal”.