I’m going to be poking at this question from several angles—I don’t think I’ve got a complete and concise answer.
I think you’ve got a bad case of God’s Eye Point of View—thinking that the most rational and/or moral way to approach the universe is as though you don’t exist.
The thing about GEPOV is that it isn’t total nonsense. You can get more truth if you aren’t territorial about what you already believe, but since you actually are part of the universe and you are your only point of view, trying to leave yourself out completely is its own flavor of falseness.
As you are finding out, ignoring your needs leads to incapacitation. It’s like saying that we mustn’t waste valuable hydrocarbons on oil for the car engine. All the hydrocarbons should be used for gasoline! This eventually stops working. It’s important to satisfy needs which are of different kinds and operate on different time scales.
You may be thinking that, since fun isn’t easily measurable externally, the need for it isn’t real.
I think you’re up against something which isn’t about rationality exactly—it’s what I call the emotional immune system. Depression is partly about not being able to resist (or even being attracted to) ideas which cause damage.
An emotional immune system is about having affection for oneself, and if it’s damaged, it needs to be rebuilt, probably a little at a time.
On the intellectual side, would you want all the people you want to help to defer their own pleasure indefinitely?
On the intellectual side, would you want all the people you want to help to defer their own pleasure indefinitely?
No, but I don’t know what a solution would look like. Most of the time I am just overwhelmed as it feels like everything I come up with isn’t much better than throwing a coin. I just can’t figure out the right balance between fun (experiencing; being selfish), moral conduct (being altruistic), utility maximization (being future-oriented) and my gut feelings (instinct; intuition; emotions). For example, if I have a strong urge to just go out and have fun, should I just give in to that urge or think about it? If I question the urge I often end up thinking about it until it is too late. Every attempt at a possible solution looks like browsing Wikipedia, each article links to other articles that again link to other articles until you end up with something completely unrelated to the initial article. It seems impossible to apply a lot of what is taught on LW in real life.
NancyLebovitz’s comment I think is highly relevant here.
I can only speak from my personal experience, but I’ve found than part of going through Less Wrong and understanding all the great stuff on this website, is understanding the type of creature I am.
At this current moment, I am comparitively a very simple one. In terms of the singularity, and Friendly AI, they are miles from what I am, and I am not at a point where I can emotionally take on those causes. I can intellectual but the fact is the simple creature that I am doesn’t comprehend those connections yet.
I want to one day, but a Baby has to crawl before it can walk.
Much of what I do provides me with satisfaction, joy, happiness. I don’t even fully understand why. But what I do know, is that I need those emotions to not just function, but to improve, to continue the development of myself.
Maybe it might help to reduce yourself to that simple creature. Understand that for a baby to do math, it has to understand symbols. Maybe that what you understand intellectually, in terms of emotional function your not yet ready to deal with.
Just my two cents. sorry if I’m not as concise as I should be.
I do hope the best for you though.
I’m going to be poking at this question from several angles—I don’t think I’ve got a complete and concise answer.
I think you’ve got a bad case of God’s Eye Point of View—thinking that the most rational and/or moral way to approach the universe is as though you don’t exist.
The thing about GEPOV is that it isn’t total nonsense. You can get more truth if you aren’t territorial about what you already believe, but since you actually are part of the universe and you are your only point of view, trying to leave yourself out completely is its own flavor of falseness.
As you are finding out, ignoring your needs leads to incapacitation. It’s like saying that we mustn’t waste valuable hydrocarbons on oil for the car engine. All the hydrocarbons should be used for gasoline! This eventually stops working. It’s important to satisfy needs which are of different kinds and operate on different time scales.
You may be thinking that, since fun isn’t easily measurable externally, the need for it isn’t real.
I think you’re up against something which isn’t about rationality exactly—it’s what I call the emotional immune system. Depression is partly about not being able to resist (or even being attracted to) ideas which cause damage.
An emotional immune system is about having affection for oneself, and if it’s damaged, it needs to be rebuilt, probably a little at a time.
On the intellectual side, would you want all the people you want to help to defer their own pleasure indefinitely?
This sounds very true and important.
As far as I can tell, a great deal of thinking is the result of wanting thoughts which match a pre-existing emotional state.
Thoughts do influence emotions, but less reliably.
No, but I don’t know what a solution would look like. Most of the time I am just overwhelmed as it feels like everything I come up with isn’t much better than throwing a coin. I just can’t figure out the right balance between fun (experiencing; being selfish), moral conduct (being altruistic), utility maximization (being future-oriented) and my gut feelings (instinct; intuition; emotions). For example, if I have a strong urge to just go out and have fun, should I just give in to that urge or think about it? If I question the urge I often end up thinking about it until it is too late. Every attempt at a possible solution looks like browsing Wikipedia, each article links to other articles that again link to other articles until you end up with something completely unrelated to the initial article. It seems impossible to apply a lot of what is taught on LW in real life.
Maybe require yourself to have a certain amount of fun per week?
NancyLebovitz’s comment I think is highly relevant here.
I can only speak from my personal experience, but I’ve found than part of going through Less Wrong and understanding all the great stuff on this website, is understanding the type of creature I am. At this current moment, I am comparitively a very simple one. In terms of the singularity, and Friendly AI, they are miles from what I am, and I am not at a point where I can emotionally take on those causes. I can intellectual but the fact is the simple creature that I am doesn’t comprehend those connections yet. I want to one day, but a Baby has to crawl before it can walk. Much of what I do provides me with satisfaction, joy, happiness. I don’t even fully understand why. But what I do know, is that I need those emotions to not just function, but to improve, to continue the development of myself.
Maybe it might help to reduce yourself to that simple creature. Understand that for a baby to do math, it has to understand symbols. Maybe that what you understand intellectually, in terms of emotional function your not yet ready to deal with.
Just my two cents. sorry if I’m not as concise as I should be. I do hope the best for you though.