Um, really? The primary point there point there doesn’t seem to be about whether only the in-crowd should know about things but whether knowing about cognitive biases is safe for anyone. But maybe that’s just me.
many of the comments in Crises of Faith
But that doesn’t fit with your claim that the truth is being reserved for some elect in-group. No one (from my quick reading of the thread) is talking about just telling things to people who are already members of some super-secret transhumanist rationalist amalgam, just that there are some people out there who aren’t going to respond productively to being told certain things. So the claimed in-group includes a large number of people who haven’t ever heard of Less Wrong.
Regarding the issues with gnosticism, that’s not an accurate summary of gnosticism in that gnostics thought that there was a God superior to the Demiurge. This seems pretty different from a view which has no deity at all and a plan to construct something that if you squint at it in a funny way might sort of resemble a deity if certain results occur. And no one, absolutely no one, would claim that we somehow have to rediscover pre-existing knowledge to be more rational to help make Friendly AI. Indeed, Eliezer has repeatedly emphasized that an important part of science and actual productivity is to realize that there aren’t any ancient sources of hidden knowledge, and that a logician today is really much more worth listening to than anything in Aristotle. (See, e.g. his comments here).
don’t normally even go together and putting them all together as an attempt to make something which (vaguely) resembles a religion.
They are all here on this site.
So the argument is that they are all mentioned here and that some people subscribe to some or all of them? Sure, and some people here like the Red Sox. And a lot of others think that studying pure math is fun. And we have a sizable fraction that thinks that everyone should know how to use Spivak pronons. The presence of certain classes of opinions in some fraction of a population doesn’t necessarily tell you very much.
gnostics thought that there was a God superior to the Demiurge
Only some of them thought this, others thought that they were the superior gods and had been tricked by the demiurge to give up their positions of power. Still others thought that their was no superior god but that they needed to make or become the superior god.
ancient sources of hidden knowledge,
Prexisting is not the same as ancient. The gnostics themselves had to have come up with the ideas of gnosticism without someone previously having come up with that exact idea before. Eliezer has claimed to have seen the need for a friendly AI that goes foom, hence for this thing he is a guide. He claims to have come to this conclusion logically, which the rationality that allows for the use of logic was preexisting within himself. No one else previously needs to have thought of the need for friendly AI (with the notable exception of Science Fiction writers...).
everyone should know how to use Spivak pronons.
I am fine with using one for undetermined gender. I am not going to start using Spivak pronouns.
The presence of certain classes of opinions in some fraction of a population doesn’t necessarily tell you very much.
I am not arguing that everyone is part of this particular religious group. I believe that almost all forms of transhumanism are religious, but not all of them follow the same patterns.
Yes ok. But it seems clear that the most common form didn’t. So right now, we’re cherry picking specific parts of a vague transhumanist cluster and then attaching them to a specific cherry picked gnostic beliefs. Do you see why that might not be persuasive?
Prexisting is not the same as ancient.
Granted. But the point still holds. None of what Eliezer has said claims to have anything to do with deep pre-existing sources of knowledge.
everyone should know how to use Spivak pronons.
I am fine with using one for undetermined gender. I am not going to start using Spivak pronouns.
Missing my point. I don’t care what pronouns you use. The point is that there are a lot of non-standard beliefs that are common here and some standard beliefs too. You can’t just pick the specific set that you think most resembles a religion and act like those are the relevant dominant beliefs. Or rather you can, but it isn’t very productive if you are trying to answer some question of the form “Does the cluster of beliefs common among users at Less Wrong resemble what is generally called a religion?”
Does the cluster of beliefs common among users at Less Wrong resemble what is generally called a religion?
Given that Confucianism is not a religion then as currently constituted neither Less Wrong or Transhumanism is in general a religion. Although, the Singularity2045 people are one if it is more then one guy being very enthusiastic about things.
Um, really? The primary point there point there doesn’t seem to be about whether only the in-crowd should know about things but whether knowing about cognitive biases is safe for anyone. But maybe that’s just me.
But that doesn’t fit with your claim that the truth is being reserved for some elect in-group. No one (from my quick reading of the thread) is talking about just telling things to people who are already members of some super-secret transhumanist rationalist amalgam, just that there are some people out there who aren’t going to respond productively to being told certain things. So the claimed in-group includes a large number of people who haven’t ever heard of Less Wrong.
Regarding the issues with gnosticism, that’s not an accurate summary of gnosticism in that gnostics thought that there was a God superior to the Demiurge. This seems pretty different from a view which has no deity at all and a plan to construct something that if you squint at it in a funny way might sort of resemble a deity if certain results occur. And no one, absolutely no one, would claim that we somehow have to rediscover pre-existing knowledge to be more rational to help make Friendly AI. Indeed, Eliezer has repeatedly emphasized that an important part of science and actual productivity is to realize that there aren’t any ancient sources of hidden knowledge, and that a logician today is really much more worth listening to than anything in Aristotle. (See, e.g. his comments here).
So the argument is that they are all mentioned here and that some people subscribe to some or all of them? Sure, and some people here like the Red Sox. And a lot of others think that studying pure math is fun. And we have a sizable fraction that thinks that everyone should know how to use Spivak pronons. The presence of certain classes of opinions in some fraction of a population doesn’t necessarily tell you very much.
Only some of them thought this, others thought that they were the superior gods and had been tricked by the demiurge to give up their positions of power. Still others thought that their was no superior god but that they needed to make or become the superior god.
Prexisting is not the same as ancient. The gnostics themselves had to have come up with the ideas of gnosticism without someone previously having come up with that exact idea before. Eliezer has claimed to have seen the need for a friendly AI that goes foom, hence for this thing he is a guide. He claims to have come to this conclusion logically, which the rationality that allows for the use of logic was preexisting within himself. No one else previously needs to have thought of the need for friendly AI (with the notable exception of Science Fiction writers...).
I am fine with using one for undetermined gender. I am not going to start using Spivak pronouns.
I am not arguing that everyone is part of this particular religious group. I believe that almost all forms of transhumanism are religious, but not all of them follow the same patterns.
Yes ok. But it seems clear that the most common form didn’t. So right now, we’re cherry picking specific parts of a vague transhumanist cluster and then attaching them to a specific cherry picked gnostic beliefs. Do you see why that might not be persuasive?
Granted. But the point still holds. None of what Eliezer has said claims to have anything to do with deep pre-existing sources of knowledge.
Missing my point. I don’t care what pronouns you use. The point is that there are a lot of non-standard beliefs that are common here and some standard beliefs too. You can’t just pick the specific set that you think most resembles a religion and act like those are the relevant dominant beliefs. Or rather you can, but it isn’t very productive if you are trying to answer some question of the form “Does the cluster of beliefs common among users at Less Wrong resemble what is generally called a religion?”
Given that Confucianism is not a religion then as currently constituted neither Less Wrong or Transhumanism is in general a religion. Although, the Singularity2045 people are one if it is more then one guy being very enthusiastic about things.