4.) Belief in Immortality. Transhumanists believe in life extension to the point that eventually their bodies will be able to live indefinitely long.
Hypothetically, if someone were to invent an immortality pill which was scientifically proven to work (I am not asserting that this is possible) then would you describe anybody who believed this pill worked as having converted to a new religion? Assuming here that the claim that this pill offers immortality is no more controversial than the claim that paracetamol relieves headaches.
Immortality that is proven to work entails a contradiction due to the 2nd law of Thermodynamics, as well as being able to know the pill works only to the age of the oldest person that has taken the pill with no deaths that are not suicide or accident. Therefore, given the impossibility of proving the pill works to provide immortality, I would consider the belief that the pill has conferred immortality to be a religious belief but not necessarily a religion in itself.
If it has been shown that the pill does increase the life expectancy dramatically with near certainty then I would take the pill under the expectation of living longer but not being immortal.
Fair enough, suppose the pill only increases life expectancy. In that case would you say anyone who believes it works is religious.
Most transhumanists also don’t necessarily believe in living forever, they just want to live for a very long time. My point was that if the evidence suggests this is possible, it is not a symptom of religious faith to believe that it is possible. If you disagree, the correct approach is to discuss the evidence, not go throwing ad hominems around.
If the pill is only claimed to increase life expectancy and has been shown to do so then it is not religious. If it has not been shown to do so then it is in effect religious in nature (or snake oil, depending on who believes what and what the pill actually does).
I fully expect life expectancies to rise and the quality of life as we age to also increase. I think that this is in agreement with science as we currently understand it. However, this is not what is claimed on this site. Terms like millions of years or more are given with great fervor even though there isn’t any evidence of that being possible.
I wasn’t giving a literal example. My point was that “transhumanists believe X, some religions believe Y, which is similar to X, therefore transhumanism is a religion” is a stupid argument. After all, Abrahamic religions and transhumanists agree that snow is white, but nobody would consider that a good argument.
If you wish to criticise the beliefs held by transhumanists you must criticise the beliefs directly, not reason by analogy to superficially similar beliefs held by other groups.
Since many of the examples on your list are things that transhumanists don’t believe, or things that only some people using the name believe, I’m not necessarily interested. I already know that literally eternal lifespans are impossible within current physics, for example.
I’m still unsure about the millions of years thing, I don’t know of any physical principle that prohibits it so I’m not willing to rule it out just yet. Also, actuarial escape velocity only requires that that life expectancies rise, which you say you expect, and that they do so at a certain rate.
If you want to discuss this further then find someone else. Your post which started this about “transhumanists believe X, some religions believe Y, which is similar to X, therefore transhumanism is a religion” makes me very sceptical of the possibility that we will reach agreement.
Hypothetically, if someone were to invent an immortality pill which was scientifically proven to work (I am not asserting that this is possible) then would you describe anybody who believed this pill worked as having converted to a new religion? Assuming here that the claim that this pill offers immortality is no more controversial than the claim that paracetamol relieves headaches.
Immortality that is proven to work entails a contradiction due to the 2nd law of Thermodynamics, as well as being able to know the pill works only to the age of the oldest person that has taken the pill with no deaths that are not suicide or accident. Therefore, given the impossibility of proving the pill works to provide immortality, I would consider the belief that the pill has conferred immortality to be a religious belief but not necessarily a religion in itself.
If it has been shown that the pill does increase the life expectancy dramatically with near certainty then I would take the pill under the expectation of living longer but not being immortal.
Fair enough, suppose the pill only increases life expectancy. In that case would you say anyone who believes it works is religious.
Most transhumanists also don’t necessarily believe in living forever, they just want to live for a very long time. My point was that if the evidence suggests this is possible, it is not a symptom of religious faith to believe that it is possible. If you disagree, the correct approach is to discuss the evidence, not go throwing ad hominems around.
If the pill is only claimed to increase life expectancy and has been shown to do so then it is not religious. If it has not been shown to do so then it is in effect religious in nature (or snake oil, depending on who believes what and what the pill actually does).
I fully expect life expectancies to rise and the quality of life as we age to also increase. I think that this is in agreement with science as we currently understand it. However, this is not what is claimed on this site. Terms like millions of years or more are given with great fervor even though there isn’t any evidence of that being possible.
I wasn’t giving a literal example. My point was that “transhumanists believe X, some religions believe Y, which is similar to X, therefore transhumanism is a religion” is a stupid argument. After all, Abrahamic religions and transhumanists agree that snow is white, but nobody would consider that a good argument.
If you wish to criticise the beliefs held by transhumanists you must criticise the beliefs directly, not reason by analogy to superficially similar beliefs held by other groups.
I just did for the example you gave. Did you want me to do so for all of the examples given on my list?
Since many of the examples on your list are things that transhumanists don’t believe, or things that only some people using the name believe, I’m not necessarily interested. I already know that literally eternal lifespans are impossible within current physics, for example.
I’m still unsure about the millions of years thing, I don’t know of any physical principle that prohibits it so I’m not willing to rule it out just yet. Also, actuarial escape velocity only requires that that life expectancies rise, which you say you expect, and that they do so at a certain rate.
If you want to discuss this further then find someone else. Your post which started this about “transhumanists believe X, some religions believe Y, which is similar to X, therefore transhumanism is a religion” makes me very sceptical of the possibility that we will reach agreement.