I have a thought on these studies that give evidence for unequal intelligence between the sexes (or races.) They can have very scary, emotional connotations. They used to scare me. Then I thought about it a bit and asked “What am I scared of?” And I realized that I was scared that, if these genetic inequalities were real, I’d have to be a sexist or racist.
But think for a minute. Suppose the “worst-case scenario” were true. Suppose women really did have worse brains than men, for genetic reasons. What would be my logical response?
It occurred to me that the only responsible way to react to such news would be to treat it as a disease to be cured. And then start working on biology to fix it. I am not an anti-Semite because I’m aware that Tay-Sachs disease affects Ashkenazic Jews.
If there were genetic differences between sexes or races, I’d be less likely to favor affirmative action at the college or employment level, because it wouldn’t be effective. The injustice would be biological, not social, and it would be best fixed biologically.
The real reason people are scared of genetic differences is the naturalistic fallacy. Just because an inequality is natural doesn’t mean it’s good. If some people have the misfortune to have low IQ’s for genetic reasons, and if higher IQ would make their lives better, then shouldn’t we be working on fixing that?
(Note: this is not an argument that IQ differences exist or are meaningful. I’m just arguing that if they turn out to be real, there are non-sexist, non-racist ways to deal with that reality. I’m of the belief now that knowing what reality is like can never be intrinsically immoral.)
If there were genetic differences between sexes or races, I’d be less likely to favor affirmative action at the college or employment level, because it wouldn’t be effective. The injustice would be biological, not social, and it would be best fixed biologically.
With the caveat that a biological injustice and a social injustice are not mutually exclusive—there may be genetic differences between sexes/races, but that would not eliminate the possibility of additional unnecessary social barriers to college or work.
ETA: I should also have remembered that ‘biological’ does not equal ‘genetic.’
Though there’s an added harm if the average varies across groups, especially groups where membership is easy to recognize. Because then, people (reasonably) make generalizations, and high-IQ members of a low-IQ group are harmed by negative opinions. Add in the fact that people have biases, and stereotyping is likely to go even beyond what’s reasonable, so the problem becomes even worse.
But yes, if some individuals have low IQ for genetic reasons (or other reasons beyond their control) I consider it a bad thing and we ought to see about fixing it. I think Eliezer made this point earlier.
The injustice is that each individual is not maximally intelligent. The variance in intelligence between individuals just means that this is more unjust for some people than others.
I’m not sure whether I’d want to be maximally intelligent. You could say the injustice is that individuals are less intelligent than would be optimal for their flourishing, or whatever.
One of the major concerns here are Gattaca-type scenarios, where when you’re looking for very smart people you’ll throw out all of the applications from females to maximize your odds of getting a very smart person. Obviously someone with the time to look at every application wouldn’t do that, as the smartest applicant could still be a female. But usually there are some factors that you use first to throw away some of the stack so you don’t have to look at them all.
That may be happening already. (Statistical discrimination is one model for employment discrimination, and as I recall it doesn’t hold up too badly; better than the Becker model, at least.) It’s not an intrinsically “Gattaca” idea.
Of course, in a world where there was a biological “fix” for low IQ, you’d have the issue of whether it should be voluntary (I’d say yes) and whether people who don’t opt for it should get preference from schools and employers (I’d say no, but tentatively) and what to do about access (it’s complicated.) But I’m fairly confident that if IQ matters for real life outcomes, then a world where it can be improved technologically is a better one.
I have a thought on these studies that give evidence for unequal intelligence between the sexes (or races.) They can have very scary, emotional connotations. They used to scare me. Then I thought about it a bit and asked “What am I scared of?” And I realized that I was scared that, if these genetic inequalities were real, I’d have to be a sexist or racist.
Yeah, I think this is a common reaction and it’s not an entirely unreasonable reaction because sexism and racism are bad. But as you’ve realized it is better to know the truth if you want to influence the world in a direction consistent with your values.
Just to be clear though, the claim is not that men are ‘more intelligent’ than women. It is that men have greater variance. This means more geniuses and more morons. It only carries value connotations if you believe more variance is inherently ‘better’, not if you believe higher intelligence is better. If you look at the scandal over Larry Summers’ comments on this issue you will see that the vast majority of people who were offended by his comments did not understand this distinction.
(Note: this is not an argument that IQ differences exist or are meaningful. I’m just arguing that if they turn out to be real, there are non-sexist, non-racist ways to deal with that reality. I’m of the belief now that knowing what reality is like can never be intrinsically immoral.)
Yes, this is the key. It is always better to know the truth if you wish to effectively influence the future. You still get to choose your own values though—if the way things are is not the way you think they should be then believing true things is your best bet for effectively resolving that discrepancy in a favourable way.
Yeah, I’m aware about the variance thing. The “geniuses” side of the graph stands out to me more, but probably only because of personal relevance. (I never took an IQ test but I’d guess I’m more likely top half than bottom half.) But you’re right, if there were higher variance among men, and if IQ mattered, then I’d believe we were also obligated to do something about low-IQ males.
Richard Whitmire (see http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/whyboysfail/) convinced me that there’s a serious educational problem among US and European boys. He examines the education system, not IQ, but if some of it turns out to be biological then we should be working on that too.
I think the problems with the education system in the US and Europe are more fundamental than just that it is failing boys. The real problem is that we have an educational system adapted for early 20th century industrial societies that for institutional reasons has been unable to adapt to a completely transformed economic and social landscape. The most obvious victims are certain groups of boys but the whole system is completely unsuited to the modern world and is structured in a way that makes it largely incapable of correctly diagnosing or doing anything to fix the problems.
Yes, but usually, when a grad student in mathematics believes she has above median intelligence with respect to the general population, she will turn out to be right.
Just to be clear though, the claim is not that men are ‘more intelligent’ than women. It is that men have greater variance. This means more geniuses and more morons. It only carries value connotations if you believe more variance is inherently ‘better’, not if you believe higher intelligence is better. If you look at the scandal over Larry Summers’ comments on this issue you will see that the vast majority of people who were offended by his comments did not understand this distinction.
The question isn’t necessarily whether men in general are better than women in general. The active question seems to be whether it’s alright for women to get high status positions.
The active question seems to be whether it’s alright for women to get high status positions.
The active question in what context? Clearly the variance issue has no bearing on this question. Whether greater variance in intelligence is a real phenomenon potentially has bearing on questions regarding whether institutional sexism in certain academic disciplines is a real issue and on the appropriateness of quota systems or ‘positive discrimination’ but I don’t see how anyone who understood the issue could claim that it was not ‘alright’ for women to hold high status positions. I’m sure some people make that unrelated claim but people believe all sorts of crazy shit.
I agree that we can do better.
I have a thought on these studies that give evidence for unequal intelligence between the sexes (or races.) They can have very scary, emotional connotations. They used to scare me. Then I thought about it a bit and asked “What am I scared of?” And I realized that I was scared that, if these genetic inequalities were real, I’d have to be a sexist or racist.
But think for a minute. Suppose the “worst-case scenario” were true. Suppose women really did have worse brains than men, for genetic reasons. What would be my logical response?
It occurred to me that the only responsible way to react to such news would be to treat it as a disease to be cured. And then start working on biology to fix it. I am not an anti-Semite because I’m aware that Tay-Sachs disease affects Ashkenazic Jews.
If there were genetic differences between sexes or races, I’d be less likely to favor affirmative action at the college or employment level, because it wouldn’t be effective. The injustice would be biological, not social, and it would be best fixed biologically.
The real reason people are scared of genetic differences is the naturalistic fallacy. Just because an inequality is natural doesn’t mean it’s good. If some people have the misfortune to have low IQ’s for genetic reasons, and if higher IQ would make their lives better, then shouldn’t we be working on fixing that?
(Note: this is not an argument that IQ differences exist or are meaningful. I’m just arguing that if they turn out to be real, there are non-sexist, non-racist ways to deal with that reality. I’m of the belief now that knowing what reality is like can never be intrinsically immoral.)
With the caveat that a biological injustice and a social injustice are not mutually exclusive—there may be genetic differences between sexes/races, but that would not eliminate the possibility of additional unnecessary social barriers to college or work.
ETA: I should also have remembered that ‘biological’ does not equal ‘genetic.’
Surely the injustice here, if any, is that different individuals are differently intelligent, not that the average varies across groups?
Mostly, yes.
Though there’s an added harm if the average varies across groups, especially groups where membership is easy to recognize. Because then, people (reasonably) make generalizations, and high-IQ members of a low-IQ group are harmed by negative opinions. Add in the fact that people have biases, and stereotyping is likely to go even beyond what’s reasonable, so the problem becomes even worse.
But yes, if some individuals have low IQ for genetic reasons (or other reasons beyond their control) I consider it a bad thing and we ought to see about fixing it. I think Eliezer made this point earlier.
The injustice is that each individual is not maximally intelligent. The variance in intelligence between individuals just means that this is more unjust for some people than others.
I agree that’s the main bad thing, but I’m not sure it would be properly called an “injustice”, and I have strong reservations about the “maximally”.
I’m not sure whether I’d want to be maximally intelligent. You could say the injustice is that individuals are less intelligent than would be optimal for their flourishing, or whatever.
One of the major concerns here are Gattaca-type scenarios, where when you’re looking for very smart people you’ll throw out all of the applications from females to maximize your odds of getting a very smart person. Obviously someone with the time to look at every application wouldn’t do that, as the smartest applicant could still be a female. But usually there are some factors that you use first to throw away some of the stack so you don’t have to look at them all.
That may be happening already. (Statistical discrimination is one model for employment discrimination, and as I recall it doesn’t hold up too badly; better than the Becker model, at least.) It’s not an intrinsically “Gattaca” idea.
Of course, in a world where there was a biological “fix” for low IQ, you’d have the issue of whether it should be voluntary (I’d say yes) and whether people who don’t opt for it should get preference from schools and employers (I’d say no, but tentatively) and what to do about access (it’s complicated.) But I’m fairly confident that if IQ matters for real life outcomes, then a world where it can be improved technologically is a better one.
Yeah, I think this is a common reaction and it’s not an entirely unreasonable reaction because sexism and racism are bad. But as you’ve realized it is better to know the truth if you want to influence the world in a direction consistent with your values.
Just to be clear though, the claim is not that men are ‘more intelligent’ than women. It is that men have greater variance. This means more geniuses and more morons. It only carries value connotations if you believe more variance is inherently ‘better’, not if you believe higher intelligence is better. If you look at the scandal over Larry Summers’ comments on this issue you will see that the vast majority of people who were offended by his comments did not understand this distinction.
Yes, this is the key. It is always better to know the truth if you wish to effectively influence the future. You still get to choose your own values though—if the way things are is not the way you think they should be then believing true things is your best bet for effectively resolving that discrepancy in a favourable way.
Yeah, I’m aware about the variance thing. The “geniuses” side of the graph stands out to me more, but probably only because of personal relevance. (I never took an IQ test but I’d guess I’m more likely top half than bottom half.) But you’re right, if there were higher variance among men, and if IQ mattered, then I’d believe we were also obligated to do something about low-IQ males.
Richard Whitmire (see http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/whyboysfail/) convinced me that there’s a serious educational problem among US and European boys. He examines the education system, not IQ, but if some of it turns out to be biological then we should be working on that too.
I think the problems with the education system in the US and Europe are more fundamental than just that it is failing boys. The real problem is that we have an educational system adapted for early 20th century industrial societies that for institutional reasons has been unable to adapt to a completely transformed economic and social landscape. The most obvious victims are certain groups of boys but the whole system is completely unsuited to the modern world and is structured in a way that makes it largely incapable of correctly diagnosing or doing anything to fix the problems.
You and everybody else
Yes, but usually, when a grad student in mathematics believes she has above median intelligence with respect to the general population, she will turn out to be right.
The question isn’t necessarily whether men in general are better than women in general. The active question seems to be whether it’s alright for women to get high status positions.
The active question in what context? Clearly the variance issue has no bearing on this question. Whether greater variance in intelligence is a real phenomenon potentially has bearing on questions regarding whether institutional sexism in certain academic disciplines is a real issue and on the appropriateness of quota systems or ‘positive discrimination’ but I don’t see how anyone who understood the issue could claim that it was not ‘alright’ for women to hold high status positions. I’m sure some people make that unrelated claim but people believe all sorts of crazy shit.