That link goes to your previous comment instead of the Michael Blume example. Perhaps you mean his othello role?
Fixed, thanks.
I must admit that I’m somewhat confused, here. I make no claims that the described practices are safe, and in fact I make a number of explicit disclaimers stating that they are not safe. It is dangerous to be half a rationalist, and I readily admit that these tools will bite you hard if you misuse them. This, in fact, is something that I assumed was captured by the “Dark Arts” label. I continue to be baffled by how some people complain about the label, others complain about the danger, and still others complain about both at once.
I completely agree that you shouldn’t go around compartmentalizing at every opportunity, and that you should have a deep understanding of the problem at hand before doing any So8res!DarkArts. Prefer other methods, where possible.
I get the impression that my mental model of when self-deception is optimal differs from your own. I don’t currently have time to try to converge these models right now, but suffice to say that your arguments are not addressing the divergence point.
Regardless, I think we can both agree that self-deception is optimal sometimes, under controlled scenarios in which the agent has a strong understanding of the situation. I think we also agree that such things are dangerous and should be approached with care. All this, I tried to capture with the “Dark Arts” label—I am sorry if that did not make it across the communication gap.
I make no claims that the described practices are safe, and in fact I make a number of explicit disclaimers stating that they are not safe.
I don’t mean to imply that we disagree or that you didn’t put a big enough disclaimer.
I was trying to highlight what the differences were between what happens when you allow yourself to use the “sometimes Dark Arts is the way to go” frame over the “Instead of using Dark Arts, I will study them until I can separate the active ingredient from the Dark” frame, and one of the big ones is the dangers of Dark Arts.
I get the impression that my mental model of when self-deception is optimal differs from your own. I don’t currently have time to try to converge these models right now, but suffice to say that your arguments are not addressing my model the divergence point.
Fair enough
Regardless, I think we can both agree that self-deception is optimal sometimes, under controlled scenarios in which the agent has a strong understanding of the situation. I think we also agree that such things are dangerous and should be approached with care
I’ll agree with that in a weak sense, but not in stronger senses.
Fixed, thanks.
I must admit that I’m somewhat confused, here. I make no claims that the described practices are safe, and in fact I make a number of explicit disclaimers stating that they are not safe. It is dangerous to be half a rationalist, and I readily admit that these tools will bite you hard if you misuse them. This, in fact, is something that I assumed was captured by the “Dark Arts” label. I continue to be baffled by how some people complain about the label, others complain about the danger, and still others complain about both at once.
I completely agree that you shouldn’t go around compartmentalizing at every opportunity, and that you should have a deep understanding of the problem at hand before doing any So8res!DarkArts. Prefer other methods, where possible.
I get the impression that my mental model of when self-deception is optimal differs from your own. I don’t currently have time to try to converge these models right now, but suffice to say that your arguments are not addressing the divergence point.
Regardless, I think we can both agree that self-deception is optimal sometimes, under controlled scenarios in which the agent has a strong understanding of the situation. I think we also agree that such things are dangerous and should be approached with care. All this, I tried to capture with the “Dark Arts” label—I am sorry if that did not make it across the communication gap.
I don’t mean to imply that we disagree or that you didn’t put a big enough disclaimer.
I was trying to highlight what the differences were between what happens when you allow yourself to use the “sometimes Dark Arts is the way to go” frame over the “Instead of using Dark Arts, I will study them until I can separate the active ingredient from the Dark” frame, and one of the big ones is the dangers of Dark Arts.
:) “active ingredients aren’t dark”+”inactive ingredients are”
Fair enough
I’ll agree with that in a weak sense, but not in stronger senses.