Here is my best attempt at a delaying tactic, after sleeping on it. Please tear apart/suggest better ways in which LV might tear apart, to replace the poor placeholder responses he has here.
--
“Agree that I musst die, if it ssavess world. But thiss iss not besst way to kill me. Ssee how you can benefit more, given your goalss.”
“Explain.”
“Believe power you know not doess refer to power to desstroy life-eaterss. Life-eaterss will find you eventually, teacher. Know you. Will hunt you down, ssomeday. Eat all of you, all of world and magic, in the end.”
“Sso you will give that magic to me, now.”
“You can never reach needed sstate of mind—incompatible with deadly indifference. Sschoolmasster could never casst—incompatible with acceptance of death. Majority cannot casst, and in the tessting, sstandard defence againsst life-eaterss iss ssacrificed. Will weaken your alliess greatly, should I randomly try to teach.”
“What do you proposse, then?”
“Take me to life-eater prisson. Allow me to pour out my life and magic there, eradicate them wholly. How I wisshed to do sso, during the resscue! You called me back, then.”
″...”
“Many advantagess to you in thiss. Can decimate your final enemy, wipe out their greatesst colony, certainly buy you yearss. Removess them before Wizengamot’ss death throess can releasse them againsst you. Freess your remaining alliess, ass thosse here failed to do. And I am utterly desstroyed—can leave no ghosst behind me. Nothing to fuel ssecret devices of Sschoolmasster’s. Presumably, reduced rissk that your great creation will recognisse my spirit—for I doubt you have tessted that.”
“You will not desstroy all of them, and sso I will have to find another ssolution anyway.”
“Ssolution iss girl-child. Sshe iss closse to learning sspell, and now immortal. My death could drive her to hunt life-eaterss forever; thiss iss not beyond your sskillss at manipulation. You know sshe wantss to be a hero.”
Really like that one. My first reaction was “and yet the Gatekeeper can still say no and kill you”. After all, Voldemort’s trying to prevent untold destruction, a prophecy whose exact paths to possible fulfilment are a mystery. Killing a limited number of Dementors is less important.
But my understanding of the AI box experiment is that it was never just about finding an argument that will look persuasive to someone armchair-thinking about it. It’s about finding an opening to the psyche, an emotional vulnerability specific to your current target. Voldemort doesn’t seem to have a lot of those, but we do have this:
Harry asked his dark side what it thought of death.
And Harry’s Patronus wavered, dimmed, almost went out upon the instant, for that desperate, sobbing, screaming terror, an unutterable fear that would do anything not to die, throw everything aside not to die, that couldn’t think straight or feel straight in the presence of that absolute horror, that couldn’t look into the abyss of nonexistence any more than it could have stared straight into the Sun, a blind terrified thing that only wanted to find a dark corner and hide and not have to think about it any more -
So yeah, that might work.
My second objection was that if Dementors are considered national weapons in case of war, destroying Azkaban would weaken the country Voldemort intends to rule. Obvious solution, if Voldemort brings this up: kill some other countries’ Dementors.
Perhaps one thing I’d change is not tell about Hermione being the solution until Voldemort agrees to do this and to revoke his threat to Harry’s parents and friends, only promise to say what the solution is once they’re about to attack Dementors.
EDIT: Bonus points if Harry manages to say something Quirrellike-cynical about how he had asked Dumbledore to come with him to kill Dementors, and he said no, and it took Voldemort to say yes.
I just tried to (using the form at the bottom of the hpmor.com chapter) and it appeared to accept it, but I can’t see it showing up on the FF.net reviews page. Is this the wrong way to do it? Is there a significant lag time?
If a Confundus can fool the Mirror, it can fool the true Patronus charm.
If Hermione can eventually kill any Dementors, she can eventually kill all of them.
Finding more people who can cast the true Patronus, and letting them handle an eventual end of the world scenario is a much smaller problem than a prophecy of doom.
The Mirror’s desire detection is unfoolable. Which means that the Confundus made Voldemort-Dumbledore actually want to see Dumbledore’s family in the afterlife. Voldemort’s thought-patterns leaked through, which started unraveling things the Confundus made him believe/want, but before that he did actually believe/want them.
If the Confundus can make someone really want that, it can make them really want to defeat death not just for themself but for everyone through their own strength.
Here is my best attempt at a delaying tactic, after sleeping on it. Please tear apart/suggest better ways in which LV might tear apart, to replace the poor placeholder responses he has here.
--
“Agree that I musst die, if it ssavess world. But thiss iss not besst way to kill me. Ssee how you can benefit more, given your goalss.”
“Explain.”
“Believe power you know not doess refer to power to desstroy life-eaterss. Life-eaterss will find you eventually, teacher. Know you. Will hunt you down, ssomeday. Eat all of you, all of world and magic, in the end.”
“Sso you will give that magic to me, now.”
“You can never reach needed sstate of mind—incompatible with deadly indifference. Sschoolmasster could never casst—incompatible with acceptance of death. Majority cannot casst, and in the tessting, sstandard defence againsst life-eaterss iss ssacrificed. Will weaken your alliess greatly, should I randomly try to teach.”
“What do you proposse, then?”
“Take me to life-eater prisson. Allow me to pour out my life and magic there, eradicate them wholly. How I wisshed to do sso, during the resscue! You called me back, then.”
″...”
“Many advantagess to you in thiss. Can decimate your final enemy, wipe out their greatesst colony, certainly buy you yearss. Removess them before Wizengamot’ss death throess can releasse them againsst you. Freess your remaining alliess, ass thosse here failed to do. And I am utterly desstroyed—can leave no ghosst behind me. Nothing to fuel ssecret devices of Sschoolmasster’s. Presumably, reduced rissk that your great creation will recognisse my spirit—for I doubt you have tessted that.”
“You will not desstroy all of them, and sso I will have to find another ssolution anyway.”
“Ssolution iss girl-child. Sshe iss closse to learning sspell, and now immortal. My death could drive her to hunt life-eaterss forever; thiss iss not beyond your sskillss at manipulation. You know sshe wantss to be a hero.”
Really like that one. My first reaction was “and yet the Gatekeeper can still say no and kill you”. After all, Voldemort’s trying to prevent untold destruction, a prophecy whose exact paths to possible fulfilment are a mystery. Killing a limited number of Dementors is less important.
But my understanding of the AI box experiment is that it was never just about finding an argument that will look persuasive to someone armchair-thinking about it. It’s about finding an opening to the psyche, an emotional vulnerability specific to your current target. Voldemort doesn’t seem to have a lot of those, but we do have this:
So yeah, that might work.
My second objection was that if Dementors are considered national weapons in case of war, destroying Azkaban would weaken the country Voldemort intends to rule. Obvious solution, if Voldemort brings this up: kill some other countries’ Dementors.
Perhaps one thing I’d change is not tell about Hermione being the solution until Voldemort agrees to do this and to revoke his threat to Harry’s parents and friends, only promise to say what the solution is once they’re about to attack Dementors.
EDIT: Bonus points if Harry manages to say something Quirrellike-cynical about how he had asked Dumbledore to come with him to kill Dementors, and he said no, and it took Voldemort to say yes.
Please post this one as a review.
I just tried to (using the form at the bottom of the hpmor.com chapter) and it appeared to accept it, but I can’t see it showing up on the FF.net reviews page. Is this the wrong way to do it? Is there a significant lag time?
EDIT: Never mind, there it is!
If a Confundus can fool the Mirror, it can fool the true Patronus charm. If Hermione can eventually kill any Dementors, she can eventually kill all of them. Finding more people who can cast the true Patronus, and letting them handle an eventual end of the world scenario is a much smaller problem than a prophecy of doom.
Something of the real voldemort was leaking through-and the part that was leaking through was, essentially, his gibbering fear of death.
Which really, really won’t help in trying to cast a True Patronus.
Casting a true Patronus is not about the absence of fear of death. It’s about “The will to defeat death, not just for yourself but for everyone, through your own strength”.
The Mirror’s desire detection is unfoolable. Which means that the Confundus made Voldemort-Dumbledore actually want to see Dumbledore’s family in the afterlife. Voldemort’s thought-patterns leaked through, which started unraveling things the Confundus made him believe/want, but before that he did actually believe/want them.
If the Confundus can make someone really want that, it can make them really want to defeat death not just for themself but for everyone through their own strength.
That’s not a win, but I think it’s the best loss possible.
Considering Harry might destroy the world, and this might be the very way he does it, why not let Hermione take care of them?