but overall: nah just ignore the taboo. we don’t have time to respect silly taboos. just reassure people you don’t think they should have known you’d feel this way and it usually goes fine.
I hear ya, but I also disagree. I don’t expect that sort of thing to go fine. I expect that usually it’d do a lot more harm than good, looking at it both from a selfish perspective (it’d make me feel uncomfortable) and an altruistic one (it’d make everyone else in the group feel uncomfortable).
Well, perhaps the issue is how to do it well? I don’t generally find it to get negative reactions.
edit: except for here, where I seem to be getting strong downvotes without disagreement. very curious what the strong downvoter believes about my comments.
I can’t imagine getting a good result in the IRL situation with someone talking too much while also saying they’ve got social anxiety. In a chat room without the professed anxiety I can see it going well.
I like that you mention being kind, I think that’s key for saying difficult things without ruining a situation or making yourself unpopular. I just can’t imagine how you’d come off as kind in that situation. Perhaps an example would illustrate it?
I didn’t downvote, but I’m guessing others might have similar qualms about your proposed approach.
Said in response to the social anxiety thing: “Aww, I get the social anxiety. Here, I want to both include you and help you flow with the conversation, so let’s help manage timings. Sometimes I have high internal-pressure-to-talk, and it helps me to leave slightly larger pauses after you speak, so that others get a chance to interrupt. Would you be up for trying that?”
In private, I think that would work. In public, I would see that statement as being incredibly uncomfortable for everyone hearing it, and cause a massive increase in social anxiety for the individual getting that implied public criticism.
Perhaps it’s less fluent here. I do mean it to be a criticism and I do mean to accept that it might cause a spike in anxiety; the way it plans to respond to a spike in anxiety is to show-not-tell that they really are welcome.
I’m thinking of not just a spike in anxiety, I mean a permanent increase in social anxiety after having their fears of being socially inappropriate realized in extremely embarrassing public criticism.
People mean a lot of things when they say they have social anxiety. Everyone can get nervous in social situations. But real anxiety can be absolutely crippling, and I wouldn’t want to make it worse for anyone.
it only works when you are able to reduce social anxiety by showing that they’re welcome. someone who is cripplingly anxious typically wants to feel like they’re safe, so showing them a clearer map to safety includes detecting the structure of their social anxiety first and getting in sync with it. then you can show them they’re welcome in a way that makes them feel safer, not less. to do this requires gently querying their anxiety’s agentic target and inviting the group to behave in ways that satisfy what their brain’s overactivation wants.
I agree with all of that, but the way you described that interaction sounds like it wouldn’t even come close to accomplishing these goals. There’s a gap in communication. I’d have to see you do it in person to know if I thought it was working.
I hear ya, but I also disagree. I don’t expect that sort of thing to go fine. I expect that usually it’d do a lot more harm than good, looking at it both from a selfish perspective (it’d make me feel uncomfortable) and an altruistic one (it’d make everyone else in the group feel uncomfortable).
Well, perhaps the issue is how to do it well? I don’t generally find it to get negative reactions.
edit: except for here, where I seem to be getting strong downvotes without disagreement. very curious what the strong downvoter believes about my comments.
I can’t imagine getting a good result in the IRL situation with someone talking too much while also saying they’ve got social anxiety. In a chat room without the professed anxiety I can see it going well.
I like that you mention being kind, I think that’s key for saying difficult things without ruining a situation or making yourself unpopular. I just can’t imagine how you’d come off as kind in that situation. Perhaps an example would illustrate it?
I didn’t downvote, but I’m guessing others might have similar qualms about your proposed approach.
Said in response to the social anxiety thing: “Aww, I get the social anxiety. Here, I want to both include you and help you flow with the conversation, so let’s help manage timings. Sometimes I have high internal-pressure-to-talk, and it helps me to leave slightly larger pauses after you speak, so that others get a chance to interrupt. Would you be up for trying that?”
In private, I think that would work. In public, I would see that statement as being incredibly uncomfortable for everyone hearing it, and cause a massive increase in social anxiety for the individual getting that implied public criticism.
Perhaps it’s less fluent here. I do mean it to be a criticism and I do mean to accept that it might cause a spike in anxiety; the way it plans to respond to a spike in anxiety is to show-not-tell that they really are welcome.
I’m thinking of not just a spike in anxiety, I mean a permanent increase in social anxiety after having their fears of being socially inappropriate realized in extremely embarrassing public criticism.
People mean a lot of things when they say they have social anxiety. Everyone can get nervous in social situations. But real anxiety can be absolutely crippling, and I wouldn’t want to make it worse for anyone.
it only works when you are able to reduce social anxiety by showing that they’re welcome. someone who is cripplingly anxious typically wants to feel like they’re safe, so showing them a clearer map to safety includes detecting the structure of their social anxiety first and getting in sync with it. then you can show them they’re welcome in a way that makes them feel safer, not less. to do this requires gently querying their anxiety’s agentic target and inviting the group to behave in ways that satisfy what their brain’s overactivation wants.
I agree with all of that, but the way you described that interaction sounds like it wouldn’t even come close to accomplishing these goals. There’s a gap in communication. I’d have to see you do it in person to know if I thought it was working.
fair nuff! yeah properly demonstrating online sounds really hard.