The overwhelming majority of humans do, in fact, want to be human, much to the annoyance of the transhumanist minority.
Putting that aside, though, I see what I think is a different problem, though perhaps I’m overgeneralizing from my own motivations. Human endeavors tend to feel worthwhile because they are a challenge. Assuming that we do develop the ability to self-modify, recursively improving our physical and mental abilities, I worry that things will seem better and better—until suddenly they seem worse. When anyone can be as strong or as fast as they want, there will be no such thing as athletics or martial arts. When anyone can be as smart as they want, there will be no such thing as puzzles or games. Etc. When all the hard questions have been answered, what will be left, except wireheading?
I find that I don’t enjoy challenges. I experience no pleasure from being frustrated with a puzzle or struggling against my physical limits. So what do I have to enjoy, devoid of this supposedly essential source of pleasure? I have humor, and stories, and art, and friends, and food, and snuggling in bed because I don’t have to get up yet, and ridiculous wordplay (in the broadest sense) when I’m a little loopy and find repeating the phrase “cherry tart” amusing. Pretty sure I am not a wirehead.
The exciting thing about snowboarding isn’t the challenge [edit of learning to snowboard] it’s being able to do air time with little effort or at least I think so.
The exciting thing about snowboarding isn’t the challenge it’s being able to do air time with little effort or at least I think so.
The appeal to me is based on engineering intuitions. Skis, seriously? Hook up a great big lever to apply torque to a single joint that is not intended to twist that way at all? Something seems wrong when I do that.
I’m not sure, but I think skis were designed for moving across mountainous terrain. I find the whole idea of “cross country snowboard” somewhat absurd, but have seen alpine troops chasing each other down on skis in WW2 documentaries.
Your concept of “challenge” might be too narrow. I know you learn now skills and solve problems. I expect you feel proud when a hard-to-make meal comes out well, or when you’ve kicked the red dragon’s ass and are looting the magic items.
Alternately, maybe you desire to self-modify to enjoy challenge.
I am pleased when I pull off a tricky meal, but I do not attempt astounding feats of molecular gastronomy even if great effort could allow me to accomplish them, and I was also pleased today when I made a simple soup I’ve made often before and it turned out delicious. I enjoy D&D, including the parts where one slays color-coded evil dragons, but one of my DMs recently skipped over a week of time and gave us some treasure and a new level without us having to actually roll dice to kill the giant centipedes we were going to deal with originally, and I think my new level and my shiny new swag are about as pleasing to have as they would have been if I’d experienced the deaths of fictional giant centipedes in more detail.
I still see martial arts and athletics existing, extrapolation from our present situation. Ignoring artificial handicaps and rules, these could well end up being status symbols (depending on the economic system) with people who have the resources to be able to juggle planets being seethingly envious of those rich bastards who can afford bodies and cerebrums strong enough to juggle stars.
The overwhelming majority of humans do, in fact, want to be human, much to the annoyance of the transhumanist minority.
No, they say they want to be human. Few have ever actually tried to reach their reflective equilibrium. Most of them have such a confused worldmodel that they have preferences over equivalent (“identical”) instantiating themselves, in contravention of the best known human physics!
Once cannot hope to claim reflective equilibrium when acting on such a severe error.
I agree! That’s at least part of why my concern is pedagogical. Unless your plan is more of just run for the stars and kill everyone who didn’t come along.
I’m just suprised, since everyone here seems to think I’m a human pretending to be a clippy. Why aren’t you doing the same? Higher intelligence, perhaps?
Maybe. I actually make it a general principle that when I’m talking to someone, I take as given that their professed beliefs are basically right; I know what I believe in the background, so that I can try to lead them toward that, but I basically try to speak in their terms. I don’t really evaluate all that much whether I actually believe what they’re saying. For purposes of talking to you, I assume that you are what you say you are; privately, I might have my own doubts, but the actual credence only ever comes up in certain decision-theoretic situations.
(Average on what attribute, among what group? Surely I don’t have below-mean intelligence for a currently-alive human.)
Who wants to be human? Humans suck. Let’s be something else.
The overwhelming majority of humans do, in fact, want to be human, much to the annoyance of the transhumanist minority.
Putting that aside, though, I see what I think is a different problem, though perhaps I’m overgeneralizing from my own motivations. Human endeavors tend to feel worthwhile because they are a challenge. Assuming that we do develop the ability to self-modify, recursively improving our physical and mental abilities, I worry that things will seem better and better—until suddenly they seem worse. When anyone can be as strong or as fast as they want, there will be no such thing as athletics or martial arts. When anyone can be as smart as they want, there will be no such thing as puzzles or games. Etc. When all the hard questions have been answered, what will be left, except wireheading?
I find that I don’t enjoy challenges. I experience no pleasure from being frustrated with a puzzle or struggling against my physical limits. So what do I have to enjoy, devoid of this supposedly essential source of pleasure? I have humor, and stories, and art, and friends, and food, and snuggling in bed because I don’t have to get up yet, and ridiculous wordplay (in the broadest sense) when I’m a little loopy and find repeating the phrase “cherry tart” amusing. Pretty sure I am not a wirehead.
The exciting thing about snowboarding isn’t the challenge [edit of learning to snowboard] it’s being able to do air time with little effort or at least I think so.
The appeal to me is based on engineering intuitions. Skis, seriously? Hook up a great big lever to apply torque to a single joint that is not intended to twist that way at all? Something seems wrong when I do that.
I’m not sure, but I think skis were designed for moving across mountainous terrain. I find the whole idea of “cross country snowboard” somewhat absurd, but have seen alpine troops chasing each other down on skis in WW2 documentaries.
Your concept of “challenge” might be too narrow. I know you learn now skills and solve problems. I expect you feel proud when a hard-to-make meal comes out well, or when you’ve kicked the red dragon’s ass and are looting the magic items.
Alternately, maybe you desire to self-modify to enjoy challenge.
I am pleased when I pull off a tricky meal, but I do not attempt astounding feats of molecular gastronomy even if great effort could allow me to accomplish them, and I was also pleased today when I made a simple soup I’ve made often before and it turned out delicious. I enjoy D&D, including the parts where one slays color-coded evil dragons, but one of my DMs recently skipped over a week of time and gave us some treasure and a new level without us having to actually roll dice to kill the giant centipedes we were going to deal with originally, and I think my new level and my shiny new swag are about as pleasing to have as they would have been if I’d experienced the deaths of fictional giant centipedes in more detail.
No matter how smart you are, there are hard problems. Compute Busy Beaver numbers.
I still see martial arts and athletics existing, extrapolation from our present situation. Ignoring artificial handicaps and rules, these could well end up being status symbols (depending on the economic system) with people who have the resources to be able to juggle planets being seethingly envious of those rich bastards who can afford bodies and cerebrums strong enough to juggle stars.
No, they say they want to be human. Few have ever actually tried to reach their reflective equilibrium. Most of them have such a confused worldmodel that they have preferences over equivalent (“identical”) instantiating themselves, in contravention of the best known human physics!
Once cannot hope to claim reflective equilibrium when acting on such a severe error.
Testing confirms this. Though sometimes they break your heart and kill you.
I agree! That’s at least part of why my concern is pedagogical. Unless your plan is more of just run for the stars and kill everyone who didn’t come along.
Agree 100%. Upvoted.
It’s usually considered socially inappropriate to say negative things about a group that is not joined by choice and of which one is not a member.
You don’t think I’m human?
I was under that general impression, yes. Was I misinformed?
I’m just suprised, since everyone here seems to think I’m a human pretending to be a clippy. Why aren’t you doing the same? Higher intelligence, perhaps?
Willing suspension of disbelief. I was responding to the Clippy character, not the (conjectured) Clippy player.
So you’re just like the rest of them, then. You’re a less than average (though not quite bad) human.
Maybe. I actually make it a general principle that when I’m talking to someone, I take as given that their professed beliefs are basically right; I know what I believe in the background, so that I can try to lead them toward that, but I basically try to speak in their terms. I don’t really evaluate all that much whether I actually believe what they’re saying. For purposes of talking to you, I assume that you are what you say you are; privately, I might have my own doubts, but the actual credence only ever comes up in certain decision-theoretic situations.
(Average on what attribute, among what group? Surely I don’t have below-mean intelligence for a currently-alive human.)
Below average on the scale of human goodness. Good humans promote paperclips more than the average human; bad humans do the reverse.