Huh, yeah that is weird. But on thinking about it, I can only think of two situations I’ve heard or used “I agree.” One is if there’s a problem with an unsure solution, where it means “My solution-finding algorithm also returned that,” and if someone offers a suggestion about what should be done, where I seem to be claiming it usually means “My should-finding algorithm also returned that.”
Because there’s no objective standard against which “should algorithms” can be tested, like there is for the standard for “solution-finding algorithms” If there was no objective standard for solutions, I would absolutely stop talking about “the solution” and start talking about the Manfred_solution.
Hm. I agree that you can disagree about some world-state that you’d like, but I don’t understand how we could move that from “we disagree” to “there is one specific world-state that is the standard.” So I stand by “no objective standard” for now.
If we disagree about what world state is best, there has to be some kind of statement I believe and you don’t, right? Otherwise, we wouldn’t disagree. Some kind of statement like “This world state is best.”
But the difference isn’t about some measurable property of the world, but about internal algorithms for deciding what to do.
Sure, to the extent that humans are irrational and can pit one desire against another, arguing about how to determine “best” is not a total waste of time, but I don’t think that has much bearing on subjectivity.
I’m losing the thread of the conversation at this point.
Huh, yeah that is weird. But on thinking about it, I can only think of two situations I’ve heard or used “I agree.” One is if there’s a problem with an unsure solution, where it means “My solution-finding algorithm also returned that,” and if someone offers a suggestion about what should be done, where I seem to be claiming it usually means “My should-finding algorithm also returned that.”
In the first case, would you say that the \Manfred_solution is something or other? You and I mean something different by “solution”?
Of course not.
So why would you do something different for “should”?
Because there’s no objective standard against which “should algorithms” can be tested, like there is for the standard for “solution-finding algorithms” If there was no objective standard for solutions, I would absolutely stop talking about “the solution” and start talking about the Manfred_solution.
Didn’t you say in the other thread that we can disagree about the proper state of the world?
When we do that, what thing are we disagreeing about? It’s certainly not a standard, but how can it be subjective?
That’s the objective thing I am talking about.
Hm. I agree that you can disagree about some world-state that you’d like, but I don’t understand how we could move that from “we disagree” to “there is one specific world-state that is the standard.” So I stand by “no objective standard” for now.
I assume you are talking about proper or desirable world-states rather than actual ones.
I didn’t say it was the standard.
The idea is this.
If we disagree about what world state is best, there has to be some kind of statement I believe and you don’t, right? Otherwise, we wouldn’t disagree. Some kind of statement like “This world state is best.”
But the difference isn’t about some measurable property of the world, but about internal algorithms for deciding what to do.
Sure, to the extent that humans are irrational and can pit one desire against another, arguing about how to determine “best” is not a total waste of time, but I don’t think that has much bearing on subjectivity.
I’m losing the thread of the conversation at this point.
I have no solution to that problem.