No I was pointing out that in all realistic ways of constructing the hypothetical there are going to be quite major risks and costs to oneself in pushing the fat man: an obvious one being that he easily could fight back. This may indeed be one of the factors behind different moral intuitions. (We have no instincts about the cost-to-self of flipping a switch: although that could also be very high in the modern world, it takes some thinking to realise it).
For what it’s worth, my own answers are “no flip, no push and no jump” for precisely such reasons: all too risky to self. Though if I had family members or close friends on the lines, I’d react differently. If there were a hundred or a thousand people on the line, I’d probably react differently.
No I was pointing out that in all realistic ways of constructing the hypothetical there are going to be quite major risks and costs to oneself in pushing the fat man
I’m guessing wedrifid isn’t taking that into account because we were explicitly asked not to do that here:
Try not to Kobayashi Maru this question, at least not yet. I know you can criticize the scenario and find it unrealistic.
Thanks for the patient reminder to read the entire original post before jumping into commenting on the comments. I did in fact miss all the caveats about wheelchairs, light rolling, fat man being anaesthetised etc. Doh!
I guess elharo should also have stipulated that no-one has any avenging friends or relatives (or lawyers) in the entire scenario, and that the usual authorities are going to give a free-pass to any law-breaking today. Maybe also that I’ll forget the whole thing in the morning, so there will be no residual guilt, angst etc.
To be honest, making the wheelchair roll gently into the path of the trolley is now looking very analogous to switching a trolley between two tracks: both seem mechanical and impersonal, with little to tell them apart. I find that I have no strong intuitions any more: my remaining moral intuitions are extremely confused. The scenario is so contrived that I’m feeling no sympathy for anyone, and no real Kantian imperatives either. I might as well be asked whether I want to kill a Martian to save five Venusians. Weird.
No I was pointing out that in all realistic ways of constructing the hypothetical there are going to be quite major risks and costs to oneself in pushing the fat man: an obvious one being that he easily could fight back. This may indeed be one of the factors behind different moral intuitions. (We have no instincts about the cost-to-self of flipping a switch: although that could also be very high in the modern world, it takes some thinking to realise it).
For what it’s worth, my own answers are “no flip, no push and no jump” for precisely such reasons: all too risky to self. Though if I had family members or close friends on the lines, I’d react differently. If there were a hundred or a thousand people on the line, I’d probably react differently.
I’m guessing wedrifid isn’t taking that into account because we were explicitly asked not to do that here:
OK, my bad.
Thanks for the patient reminder to read the entire original post before jumping into commenting on the comments. I did in fact miss all the caveats about wheelchairs, light rolling, fat man being anaesthetised etc. Doh!
I guess elharo should also have stipulated that no-one has any avenging friends or relatives (or lawyers) in the entire scenario, and that the usual authorities are going to give a free-pass to any law-breaking today. Maybe also that I’ll forget the whole thing in the morning, so there will be no residual guilt, angst etc.
To be honest, making the wheelchair roll gently into the path of the trolley is now looking very analogous to switching a trolley between two tracks: both seem mechanical and impersonal, with little to tell them apart. I find that I have no strong intuitions any more: my remaining moral intuitions are extremely confused. The scenario is so contrived that I’m feeling no sympathy for anyone, and no real Kantian imperatives either. I might as well be asked whether I want to kill a Martian to save five Venusians. Weird.