What about the Ebborians? The Ebborians, you recall, have brains like flat sheets of conducting polymer, and when they reproduce, the brain-sheet splits down its thickness. In the beginning, there is definitely one brain; in the end, there is definitely two brains; in between, there is a continuous decrease of causal influence and synchronization. When does one Ebborian become two?
Those who insist on an objective population count in a decoherent universe, must confront exactly analogous people-splitting problems in classical physics!
Heck, you could simulate quantum physics the way we currently think it works, and ask exactly the same question! At the beginning there is one blob, at the end there are two blobs, in this universe we have constructed. So when does the consciousness split, if you think there’s an objective answer to that?
That is a somewhat useful analogy, but it can be taken too far. But it seems to me to be saying the same thing (though perhaps not as clearly) as the inkblot above:
I thought that when it said “At the beginning there is one blob, at the end there are two blobs” it was saying that the “worlds” did eventually become discrete, you just couldn’t tell exactly when.
When you mix regions of stability and chaos, eventually things settle down into relatively discrete zones… along some directions… while being smeared out all over the place in others.
Edited to add: Are these downvotes from people who know quantum mechanics or dynamics in phase space, or is my comment just making people confused again (a bad thing to be sure), or what? I can probably fix it, but it’d be best to know what about it needs fixing.
No idea why whoever downvoted you did so, but here’s why I think I felt your comment was not useful to me, or much less useful of what it could have been if you happen to know what you’re talking about (I don’t so I can’t tell):
Your statement states a fact without any explanation, examples or pointers to such. If you had said something like “When you mix regions of stability and chaos, things never settle down into discrete zones… it’s all smeared out all over the place.” — then the effect of reading it would pretty much have been the same unless I already knew about the subject enough not to need your comment.
Imagine someone not having any education in astronomy saying something like “I thought the sun and stars turn around the Earth”, and you commenting “Actually, the Earth spins around itself, and it turns around the sun, while the other stars pretty much go every which way.” Unless the first person knew you were a good astronomer, they don’t really learn anything. And even if they did believe you knew you to be an expert on what you were talking about, they might learn it as a rote fact, but won’t really understand much.
Oi, if that’s the problem I’ll just call a halt. Chaos theory is kind of like quantum mechanics: done right, it’s tough, and done easy, comes out horribly wrong.
So… your comment was an attempt at “done easy”, or was it “tough”?
(It occurs to me that the line above would be normally interpreted as snarky. My intent was half friendly joke, half “if you have that opinion about Chaos theory, what did you try to achieve in your earlier comment?” I just don’t know how to express that in written English...)
Thanks for answering!
I guess I was confused by this:
That is a somewhat useful analogy, but it can be taken too far. But it seems to me to be saying the same thing (though perhaps not as clearly) as the inkblot above:
Can you really count it? Not really!
I thought that when it said “At the beginning there is one blob, at the end there are two blobs” it was saying that the “worlds” did eventually become discrete, you just couldn’t tell exactly when.
When you mix regions of stability and chaos, eventually things settle down into relatively discrete zones… along some directions… while being smeared out all over the place in others.
Edited to add: Are these downvotes from people who know quantum mechanics or dynamics in phase space, or is my comment just making people confused again (a bad thing to be sure), or what? I can probably fix it, but it’d be best to know what about it needs fixing.
No idea why whoever downvoted you did so, but here’s why I think I felt your comment was not useful to me, or much less useful of what it could have been if you happen to know what you’re talking about (I don’t so I can’t tell):
Your statement states a fact without any explanation, examples or pointers to such. If you had said something like “When you mix regions of stability and chaos, things never settle down into discrete zones… it’s all smeared out all over the place.” — then the effect of reading it would pretty much have been the same unless I already knew about the subject enough not to need your comment.
Imagine someone not having any education in astronomy saying something like “I thought the sun and stars turn around the Earth”, and you commenting “Actually, the Earth spins around itself, and it turns around the sun, while the other stars pretty much go every which way.” Unless the first person knew you were a good astronomer, they don’t really learn anything. And even if they did believe you knew you to be an expert on what you were talking about, they might learn it as a rote fact, but won’t really understand much.
Oi, if that’s the problem I’ll just call a halt. Chaos theory is kind of like quantum mechanics: done right, it’s tough, and done easy, comes out horribly wrong.
So… your comment was an attempt at “done easy”, or was it “tough”?
(It occurs to me that the line above would be normally interpreted as snarky. My intent was half friendly joke, half “if you have that opinion about Chaos theory, what did you try to achieve in your earlier comment?” I just don’t know how to express that in written English...)