When Steve Jobs was “friends” with Steve Wozniak, he accepted a contract for some computer engineering work for $2000, then payed Woz $500 to do the work and never told him he was pocketing $1500.
Would you stay friends with someone who did to you what I just said Jobs did to Woz? Would you not be angry about it at all?
Here’s the correct story, from Wikipedia, with 5 citations:
Alcorn assigned Steve Jobs to design a prototype. Jobs was offered US$750, with an extra $100 each time a chip was eliminated from the prospected design. Jobs promised to complete a prototype within four days.
Jobs noticed his friend Steve Wozniak—employee of Hewlett-Packard—was capable of producing designs with a small number of chips, and invited him to work on the hardware design with the prospect of splitting the $750 wage. Wozniak had no sketches and instead interpreted the game from its description. To save parts, he had “tricky little designs” difficult to understand for most engineers. Near the end of development, Wozniak considered moving the high score to the screen’s top, but Jobs claimed Bushnell wanted it at the bottom; Wozniak was unaware of any truth to his claims. The original deadline was met after Wozniak did not sleep for four days straight. In the end 50 chips were removed from Jobs’ original design. This equated to a US$5,000 bonus, which Jobs kept secret from Wozniak, instead only paying him $375.
If my friend lied or deceived me then I would be angry. Otherwise, I think my friend would have reasonably interpreted my failure to ask how much he would make from the deal as a signal that I wasn’t concerned about how much he would be profiting from the transaction. Often finding work is significantly harder than accomplishing it, and knowing this would have caused me to not be upset with my friend. When I did find out what the friend did I would probably think to myself that this is a guy really good at making money and I definitely want to keep associating with him.
Are you sure your judgment isn’t being altered by having the example of Steve Jobs in mind? If someone tricks you out of a substantial sum of money, it’s a bit of a stretch to presume it’s likely they have world-changing taste. Typically, people willing to trick their friends are not people you want to be friends with, and Jobs is the exception rather than the rule. His ability to make money off you does not mean you’ll get a reasonable share of that money.
Are you sure your judgment isn’t being altered by having the example of Steve Jobs in mind
Fair point, but I don’t think so. Let’s say that I’m Woz and had been willing to do the work for $200, and HP ended up paying $5750. This meant Jobs found someone willing to pay 28 times as much for my time as I considered it to be worth. Even if I developed a hatred towards him I would hide it.
I think you’re being a one-step rationalist, looking one step ahead in game theory.
A 2-stepper realizes that, if he signals to his friends that they won’t be his friends anymore if they fail to split windfalls with him, his friends may split windfalls with him.
I guess these comments are being voted down because of the cultural norm not to speak ill of the dead. Since the dead themselves have no feelings that could be hurt any more the purpose seems to be to avoid hurting the feelings of the grieving? Is this the application of the norm here and in this context an example of a lost purpose (but harmless?) or still useful/reasonable?
Liver stealer. Handicapped-space parker. Charity non-donor.
I like Bill Gates better.
When Steve Jobs was “friends” with Steve Wozniak, he accepted a contract for some computer engineering work for $2000, then payed Woz $500 to do the work and never told him he was pocketing $1500.
So if Woz had been willing to do the contract for $200 but didn’t tell this to Jobs, would this make Woz a bad person?
Would you stay friends with someone who did to you what I just said Jobs did to Woz? Would you not be angry about it at all?
Here’s the correct story, from Wikipedia, with 5 citations:
Alcorn assigned Steve Jobs to design a prototype. Jobs was offered US$750, with an extra $100 each time a chip was eliminated from the prospected design. Jobs promised to complete a prototype within four days.
Jobs noticed his friend Steve Wozniak—employee of Hewlett-Packard—was capable of producing designs with a small number of chips, and invited him to work on the hardware design with the prospect of splitting the $750 wage. Wozniak had no sketches and instead interpreted the game from its description. To save parts, he had “tricky little designs” difficult to understand for most engineers. Near the end of development, Wozniak considered moving the high score to the screen’s top, but Jobs claimed Bushnell wanted it at the bottom; Wozniak was unaware of any truth to his claims. The original deadline was met after Wozniak did not sleep for four days straight. In the end 50 chips were removed from Jobs’ original design. This equated to a US$5,000 bonus, which Jobs kept secret from Wozniak, instead only paying him $375.
If my friend lied or deceived me then I would be angry. Otherwise, I think my friend would have reasonably interpreted my failure to ask how much he would make from the deal as a signal that I wasn’t concerned about how much he would be profiting from the transaction. Often finding work is significantly harder than accomplishing it, and knowing this would have caused me to not be upset with my friend. When I did find out what the friend did I would probably think to myself that this is a guy really good at making money and I definitely want to keep associating with him.
Are you sure your judgment isn’t being altered by having the example of Steve Jobs in mind? If someone tricks you out of a substantial sum of money, it’s a bit of a stretch to presume it’s likely they have world-changing taste. Typically, people willing to trick their friends are not people you want to be friends with, and Jobs is the exception rather than the rule. His ability to make money off you does not mean you’ll get a reasonable share of that money.
Fair point, but I don’t think so. Let’s say that I’m Woz and had been willing to do the work for $200, and HP ended up paying $5750. This meant Jobs found someone willing to pay 28 times as much for my time as I considered it to be worth. Even if I developed a hatred towards him I would hide it.
I think you’re being a one-step rationalist, looking one step ahead in game theory. A 2-stepper realizes that, if he signals to his friends that they won’t be his friends anymore if they fail to split windfalls with him, his friends may split windfalls with him.
Or they will just make deals with non-friends and leave me with nothing.
I guess these comments are being voted down because of the cultural norm not to speak ill of the dead. Since the dead themselves have no feelings that could be hurt any more the purpose seems to be to avoid hurting the feelings of the grieving? Is this the application of the norm here and in this context an example of a lost purpose (but harmless?) or still useful/reasonable?
I heard 5000$ and 375$...
It is mentioned in iWoz, the autobiography of Wozniak. I can look it up.