If what she said was true, we only know that she had the wand and hid it in a graveyard. We don’t know when or how she got it. If Dumbledore did find Harry, he should have found the wand as well, if it was there. Similarly, if Bellatrix had found the wand at Godric’s Hollow, she should have found Harry too, and killed him.
If they’re not lying, I conclude that Voldemort gave her his wand before he went to Godric’s Hollow. If he ever did go to Godric’s Hollow.
An aside on Bella—she is described in much the same terms as Hermione.
“My… Lord… I went where you said to await you, but you did not
come… I looked for you but I could not find you… you are alive...”
“Your wand,” murmured Bellatrix, “I hid it in the graveyard, my
lord, before I left… under the tombstone to the right of your father’s
grave… will you kill me, now, if that was all you wished of me… I think
I must have always wanted you to be the one to kill me… but I can’t
remember now, it must have been a happy thought...”
“It is not,” said Dumbledore, shaking his head and looking very serious. “I took this from the ruins of James and Lily’s home in Godric’s Hollow, where also I found you; and I have kept it from then until now, against the day when I could give it to you.”
“The Dark Lord came to Godric’s Hollow,” said McGonagall in a
whisper. “You should have been hidden, but you were betrayed. The
Dark Lord killed James, and he killed Lily, and he came in the end to
you, to your crib. He cast the Killing Curse at you. And that was where
it ended. The Killing Curse is formed of pure hate, and strikes directly
at the soul, severing it from the body. It cannot be blocked. The only
defense is not to be there. But you survived. You are the only person
ever to survive. The Killing Curse reflected and rebounded and struck
the Dark Lord, leaving only the burnt hulk of his body and a scar on
your forehead. That was the end of the terror, and we were free.”
As long as you’re working inconsistencies, the Pettigrew/Black encounter is obviously wacky too.
EDIT: Add another quote to the collection
“I had the strangest feeling that I knew him...” Harry rubbed his
forehead. “And that I shouldn’t ought to shake his hand.” Like someone
he’d known a long time ago, and then been separated from… an unhappy
feeling, a sense of loss.
Didn’t remember this one at all, but it looks significant. The “him” referred to is Quirrell. Harry had seen him at the bar on his first visit to the Leaky Cauldron, and had asked McGonagall about him. “Sense of loss” is from James and Lily getting killed, or some positive connection to Quirrell?
Similarly, if Bellatrix had found the wand at Godric’s Hollow, she should have found Harry too, and killed him.
I think this is unwarranted. We have no reason to doubt Bellatrix’s version, so on the fatal night she: arrived at location A, following direct orders from Voldemort, and waited for him to arrive; Voldemort failed to arrive within the expected period; she went looking for him, but could not find him; at some later period, she hid his wand in a graveyard.
This is consistent with Voldemort ordering her somewhere to wait for him to do something to the the Potters; Voldemort failing and dying; Bellatrix going to the Potters’ house; not finding him, finding his wand; and then hiding the wand.
Not finding Voldemort is far more important than killing a random baby who had no possible connection to anything that night—as everyone knows, the Killing Curse cannot be blocked, and certainly not cast by a baby, so something else must have happened to Voldemort.
By your theory, she knows enough to look for him at the Potter’s house. She sees known enemies, Lily and James, dead. She can’t find Voldemort. Instead, she finds his wand abandoned near to the crib of the Potter child. She possibly saw what looked like a burn out husk of a body near the wand.
Upon meeting a completely defenseless child of prominent known enemies, I think her impulse would be to kill him, particularly since the missed return and abandoned wand would seem to indicate that something went wrong for Voldemort in this attack. It’s not like it would take a long time to break a baby’s neck, or slit it’s throat, which would be her natural inclination anyway.
She expected to meet her at location A, not at the Potter’s residence. Where did she need to rush off to that she wouldn’t have taken a moment to kill Harry?
The Potter child is not some “random baby”—he is the son of the couple who effectively started the opposition against Voldemort, and that’s even if she knew nothing about the prophecy and potential schemes by Dumbledore and Voldemort based on the prophecy.
Also, I wonder where Dumbledore is during all this. By whatever theory, I’d expect him to monitor or check on the situation in some way.
Instead, she finds his wand abandoned near to the crib of the Potter child. She possibly saw what looked like a burn out husk of a body near the wand.
No, she finds what might be her lord’s body—unthinkable thought, how could he possibly die? - near the dead body of their enemy Lily Potter. There does happen to be a live baby somewhere, but that’s not important.
She expected to meet her at location A, not at the Potter’s residence. Where did she need to rush off to that she wouldn’t have taken a moment to kill Harry?
Anywhere she might find her lord. She is insane and brain-damaged into unyielding loyalty and fanatical devotion to her lord. Anything to do with him takes priority over casual mayhem and slaughter.
Also, I wonder where Dumbledore is during all this. By whatever theory, I’d expect him to monitor or check on the situation in some way.
Yeah, that’s always been a question in canon too. Perhaps the alarms went off but it just took him long enough to get there. From the description of the actions, it could all go down in under a minute: bust down the door, curse James Potter, fly upstairs, chat with Lily for 15 seconds, and curse her and then the baby.
No, she finds what might be her lord’s body—unthinkable thought, how could he possibly die? - near the dead body of their enemy Lily Potter. There does happen to be a live baby somewhere, but that’s not important.
Again, what she would find at the house is entirely conjecture. The only thing we know is what the house looked like after Albus showed it to others. So I don’t think she necessarily saw the burnt out husk.
But let’s assume that at least Harry is there. The child of two of the greatest enemies of her Lord, who now look like they might have participated in his death, lies in her grasp. For some reason, you think this would be an “unimportant”, “random baby” to Bellatrix. Would Lucius or Draco in similar circumstances find such a baby unimportant to them? I think you’re completely disregarding the human impulse to revenge, which seems to much much more pronounced in Death Eaters.
Anything to do with him takes priority over casual mayhem and slaughter.
Again, I don’t think Bellatrix’s attitude toward Harry would be casual at that point. Her Lord may be dead. Her desire to strike out at anything would be enormous at this point. But she doesn’t just have anything, she has a very particular and special something to strike at.
Taking vengeance against his enemies has everything to do with him. Imagine her regret if she had had The Boy Who Lived in her grasp, and did nothing.
On Dumbledore and a potential alarm—I’m fine with the idea that the encounter was too short for Dumbledore to make it there in time.
The window for Bellatrix to show up is after Voldemort is late enough for her to leave where she was told to wait, and before Dumbledore arrives. That appears to me to be an empty set if he has any kind of monitoring going on. EY gives little specifics about the setup of Godric’s Hollow. In canon, it’s a village with a decent population. I don’t remember all the secret keeper mumbo jumbo, but wouldn’t you expect a village of wizards to quickly notice a battle that leaves a home in “ruins”? That Dumbledore arrives first indicates that he must have had some kind of monitoring going on.
One amazing factoid from a Harry Potter Wiki:
James and Lily’s bodies were laid to rest in the Godric’s Hollow graveyard. Their tombstone reads, “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”
That is too funny. Much like how Death Eater seems more appropriate for Mr. Glowy Person than Malfoy.
Again, what she would find at the house is entirely conjecture. The only thing we know is what the house looked like after Albus showed it to others. So I don’t think she necessarily saw the burnt out husk.
Where did the husk go?
But let’s assume that at least Harry is there. The child of two of the greatest enemies of her Lord, who now look like they might have participated in his death, lies in her grasp. For some reason, you think this would be an “unimportant”, “random baby” to Bellatrix. Would Lucius or Draco in similar circumstances find such a baby unimportant to them? I think you’re completely disregarding the human impulse to revenge, which seems to much much more pronounced in Death Eaters.
The enemies are already dead, and revenge can be taken later now that the Fidelus charm is broken. Lucius and Draco are not insane and broken creatures like Bellatrix; Voldemort’s well-being and orders are not a lexicographic preference to them.
Taking vengeance against his enemies has everything to do with him. Imagine her regret if she had had The Boy Who Lived in her grasp, and did nothing.
He’s not The Boy Who Lived. He’s just an NPC laying around.
The window for Bellatrix to show up is after Voldemort is late enough for her to leave where she was told to wait, and before Dumbledore arrives. That appears to me to be an empty set if he has any kind of monitoring going on.
That’s a good point, but consider the alternative: Dumbledore shows up, he sees the mess and dead bodies, he disposes of the charred corpse of Voldemort but leaves the wand laying around, and then he… leaves? Fails to set up any sort of defenses or wards around the crime scene? So Bellatrix can, unknown minutes/hours later when her patience runs out, just waltz in, not find her lord, find his wand, and flee? (Although your specific scenario has him foreseeing everything and deliberately leaving his wand behind, I suppose.)
Hm, don’t we need to account for Sirius Black somehow? What with Hagrid and the motorcyle, I mean.
One amazing factoid from a Harry Potter Wiki:
Oh yes, I assure that that was pointed out to Eliezer many moons ago. I look forward to seeing it pop up somehow.
I question the official story line that the husk is the remains of Voldemort after his supposed attack on Harry. Was it a husk planted by Voldemort? Planted by Dumbledore? Planted when?
As I think I mentioned, I have a hard time squaring Dumbledore planting the husk; he’d have to have been pretty confident that Voldemort wouldn’t be returning soon to screw up his story. But I’m not ruling it out.
The enemies are already dead, and revenge can be taken later
The enemy is not dead—son of an enemy, is an enemy. And why put off revenge now? Why assume that with Voldemort possibly dead, that revenge would even be possible later?
That’s a good point, but consider the alternative
I think I’m losing track of our alternatives.
You give an alternative under the branch of possibilities where Bellatrix retrieved the wand from Godric’s Hollow. You’re alternative doesn’t look likely to me either.
I’ve been making the case that the whole branch of possibilities entailed by Bellatrix retrieving the wand at Godric’s Hollow is unlikely. I think he left the wand with her, and she was told to wait for him with it, so that he could eventually retrieve it from her. But then, why not just hide it? Why involve her at all? Just because he’d rather have someone protect it? Seems weak, but seems better than the alternatives I can come up with.
One of the problems we’re having is a lack of specification in the plot. If Dumbledore didn’t find his wand there, wouldn’t Dumbledore or others have pointed that out? If he did find a wand, but someone else’s wand, wouldn’t that have been noted?
It seems unlikely that he wouldn’t suspect a trap at Godric’s Hollow. It seems unlikely that he wouldn’t recognize ritual magic when he saw it. It seems unlikely that Bellatrix could have gotten the wand if it had been left at Godric’s Hollow.
Yet she had it.
My take:
I guess Voldemort left his wand with Bellatrix and told her to wait for him.
If he fell for “the trap”, then he did it on purpose, to set Harry up as a savior in magical Britain, and to make some alterations to Harry to make him more powerful.
Possibly, he’s doing this to eventually “upload” into Harry after Harry appears to defeat Voldemort yet again. Both Malfoy and Bellatrix now think Harry is Voldemort already. All of Britain will be united under Harrymort. Harrymort rules!
Actually, not true that I can see.
If what she said was true, we only know that she had the wand and hid it in a graveyard. We don’t know when or how she got it. If Dumbledore did find Harry, he should have found the wand as well, if it was there. Similarly, if Bellatrix had found the wand at Godric’s Hollow, she should have found Harry too, and killed him.
If they’re not lying, I conclude that Voldemort gave her his wand before he went to Godric’s Hollow. If he ever did go to Godric’s Hollow.
An aside on Bella—she is described in much the same terms as Hermione.
As long as you’re working inconsistencies, the Pettigrew/Black encounter is obviously wacky too.
EDIT: Add another quote to the collection
Didn’t remember this one at all, but it looks significant. The “him” referred to is Quirrell. Harry had seen him at the bar on his first visit to the Leaky Cauldron, and had asked McGonagall about him. “Sense of loss” is from James and Lily getting killed, or some positive connection to Quirrell?
I think this is unwarranted. We have no reason to doubt Bellatrix’s version, so on the fatal night she: arrived at location A, following direct orders from Voldemort, and waited for him to arrive; Voldemort failed to arrive within the expected period; she went looking for him, but could not find him; at some later period, she hid his wand in a graveyard.
This is consistent with Voldemort ordering her somewhere to wait for him to do something to the the Potters; Voldemort failing and dying; Bellatrix going to the Potters’ house; not finding him, finding his wand; and then hiding the wand.
Not finding Voldemort is far more important than killing a random baby who had no possible connection to anything that night—as everyone knows, the Killing Curse cannot be blocked, and certainly not cast by a baby, so something else must have happened to Voldemort.
By your theory, she knows enough to look for him at the Potter’s house. She sees known enemies, Lily and James, dead. She can’t find Voldemort. Instead, she finds his wand abandoned near to the crib of the Potter child. She possibly saw what looked like a burn out husk of a body near the wand.
Upon meeting a completely defenseless child of prominent known enemies, I think her impulse would be to kill him, particularly since the missed return and abandoned wand would seem to indicate that something went wrong for Voldemort in this attack. It’s not like it would take a long time to break a baby’s neck, or slit it’s throat, which would be her natural inclination anyway.
She expected to meet her at location A, not at the Potter’s residence. Where did she need to rush off to that she wouldn’t have taken a moment to kill Harry?
The Potter child is not some “random baby”—he is the son of the couple who effectively started the opposition against Voldemort, and that’s even if she knew nothing about the prophecy and potential schemes by Dumbledore and Voldemort based on the prophecy.
Also, I wonder where Dumbledore is during all this. By whatever theory, I’d expect him to monitor or check on the situation in some way.
No, she finds what might be her lord’s body—unthinkable thought, how could he possibly die? - near the dead body of their enemy Lily Potter. There does happen to be a live baby somewhere, but that’s not important.
Anywhere she might find her lord. She is insane and brain-damaged into unyielding loyalty and fanatical devotion to her lord. Anything to do with him takes priority over casual mayhem and slaughter.
Yeah, that’s always been a question in canon too. Perhaps the alarms went off but it just took him long enough to get there. From the description of the actions, it could all go down in under a minute: bust down the door, curse James Potter, fly upstairs, chat with Lily for 15 seconds, and curse her and then the baby.
Again, what she would find at the house is entirely conjecture. The only thing we know is what the house looked like after Albus showed it to others. So I don’t think she necessarily saw the burnt out husk.
But let’s assume that at least Harry is there. The child of two of the greatest enemies of her Lord, who now look like they might have participated in his death, lies in her grasp. For some reason, you think this would be an “unimportant”, “random baby” to Bellatrix. Would Lucius or Draco in similar circumstances find such a baby unimportant to them? I think you’re completely disregarding the human impulse to revenge, which seems to much much more pronounced in Death Eaters.
Again, I don’t think Bellatrix’s attitude toward Harry would be casual at that point. Her Lord may be dead. Her desire to strike out at anything would be enormous at this point. But she doesn’t just have anything, she has a very particular and special something to strike at.
Taking vengeance against his enemies has everything to do with him. Imagine her regret if she had had The Boy Who Lived in her grasp, and did nothing.
On Dumbledore and a potential alarm—I’m fine with the idea that the encounter was too short for Dumbledore to make it there in time.
The window for Bellatrix to show up is after Voldemort is late enough for her to leave where she was told to wait, and before Dumbledore arrives. That appears to me to be an empty set if he has any kind of monitoring going on. EY gives little specifics about the setup of Godric’s Hollow. In canon, it’s a village with a decent population. I don’t remember all the secret keeper mumbo jumbo, but wouldn’t you expect a village of wizards to quickly notice a battle that leaves a home in “ruins”? That Dumbledore arrives first indicates that he must have had some kind of monitoring going on.
One amazing factoid from a Harry Potter Wiki:
That is too funny. Much like how Death Eater seems more appropriate for Mr. Glowy Person than Malfoy.
Where did the husk go?
The enemies are already dead, and revenge can be taken later now that the Fidelus charm is broken. Lucius and Draco are not insane and broken creatures like Bellatrix; Voldemort’s well-being and orders are not a lexicographic preference to them.
He’s not The Boy Who Lived. He’s just an NPC laying around.
That’s a good point, but consider the alternative: Dumbledore shows up, he sees the mess and dead bodies, he disposes of the charred corpse of Voldemort but leaves the wand laying around, and then he… leaves? Fails to set up any sort of defenses or wards around the crime scene? So Bellatrix can, unknown minutes/hours later when her patience runs out, just waltz in, not find her lord, find his wand, and flee? (Although your specific scenario has him foreseeing everything and deliberately leaving his wand behind, I suppose.)
Hm, don’t we need to account for Sirius Black somehow? What with Hagrid and the motorcyle, I mean.
Oh yes, I assure that that was pointed out to Eliezer many moons ago. I look forward to seeing it pop up somehow.
I question the official story line that the husk is the remains of Voldemort after his supposed attack on Harry. Was it a husk planted by Voldemort? Planted by Dumbledore? Planted when?
As I think I mentioned, I have a hard time squaring Dumbledore planting the husk; he’d have to have been pretty confident that Voldemort wouldn’t be returning soon to screw up his story. But I’m not ruling it out.
The enemy is not dead—son of an enemy, is an enemy. And why put off revenge now? Why assume that with Voldemort possibly dead, that revenge would even be possible later?
I think I’m losing track of our alternatives.
You give an alternative under the branch of possibilities where Bellatrix retrieved the wand from Godric’s Hollow. You’re alternative doesn’t look likely to me either.
I’ve been making the case that the whole branch of possibilities entailed by Bellatrix retrieving the wand at Godric’s Hollow is unlikely. I think he left the wand with her, and she was told to wait for him with it, so that he could eventually retrieve it from her. But then, why not just hide it? Why involve her at all? Just because he’d rather have someone protect it? Seems weak, but seems better than the alternatives I can come up with.
One of the problems we’re having is a lack of specification in the plot. If Dumbledore didn’t find his wand there, wouldn’t Dumbledore or others have pointed that out? If he did find a wand, but someone else’s wand, wouldn’t that have been noted?
It seems unlikely that he wouldn’t suspect a trap at Godric’s Hollow. It seems unlikely that he wouldn’t recognize ritual magic when he saw it. It seems unlikely that Bellatrix could have gotten the wand if it had been left at Godric’s Hollow.
Yet she had it.
My take: I guess Voldemort left his wand with Bellatrix and told her to wait for him.
If he fell for “the trap”, then he did it on purpose, to set Harry up as a savior in magical Britain, and to make some alterations to Harry to make him more powerful.
Possibly, he’s doing this to eventually “upload” into Harry after Harry appears to defeat Voldemort yet again. Both Malfoy and Bellatrix now think Harry is Voldemort already. All of Britain will be united under Harrymort. Harrymort rules!