Given the variety of counterarguments you have been exposed to, I would think that re-examining the claim with stricter scientific controls would be appropriate.
Really? The quality of the counterarguments doesn’t matter, just their variety?
I’m going to refer back to Science isn’t Strict Enough. The observations I’ve made simply shouldn’t happen if the predominant theory, (“People accurately describe how much they like the taste of alcohol”) were true. The fact that I didn’t set up scientific controls doesn’t change this.
If wine were really so great tasting, worth analyzing all the subtle nuances, worth paying obscene amounts for the best wines, there simply shouldn’t be a wine expert who prefers the taste of milkshakes to the taste of the best wine. That observation forces an huge update in beliefs, even before an official experiement.
If anything, the ones who should be updating are those who are suprised to see people coming out of the woodwork and admitting they actually don’t like the taste of alcohol.
Really? The quality of the counterarguments doesn’t matter, just their variety?
*sighs*
Something which is true is true whichever way you approach it. The variety of counterarguments—all of which are good arguments, I would not cite them otherwise—shows that many angles of approach to your claim show contrary evidence. So far as I have been informed, your personal evidence is not so overwhelming as to require our contrary evidence to be explained by other means. While it is interesting that your peers predominantly prefer the flavor of milkshakes to their favorite alcoholic beverages, more than that is needed to show that millions of people are deluding themselves.
If wine were really so great tasting, worth analyzing all the subtle nuances, worth paying obscene amounts for the best wines, there simply shouldn’t be a wine expert who prefers the taste of milkshakes to the taste of the best wine. That observation forces an huge update in beliefs, even before an official experiement.
I can’t believe you’re still making this case. While I don’t personally much value the opinions of ‘wine experts’, I see no contradiction in:
Wine is great-tasting and worth spending lots of money on.
Some wine experts like the taste of milkshakes better than the taste of wine.
In fact, I would be surprised if there were no wine experts who preferred the taste of milkshakes, even if it were the case that most people prefer the taste of wine. People like many things, all at the same time, to different degrees.
If anything, the ones who should be updating are those who are suprised to see people coming out of the woodwork and admitting they actually don’t like the taste of alcohol.
I so far haven’t observed anyone acting surprised that there are people who don’t like the taste of alcohol. Straw man?
I so far haven’t observed anyone acting surprised that there are people who don’t like the taste of alcohol.
I guess you haven’t met anyone I’ve talked to in person about this...
I would be surprised if there were no wine experts who preferred the taste of milkshakes, even if it were the case that most people prefer the taste of wine. People like many things, all at the same time, to different degrees.
Well, this is where we disagree. I can’t imagine there being something with such exquisite taste that I’d be willing to pay $100 just to experience that taste, when it’s not even better than a milkshake. (I have paid more than $100 for food/drinks before, I’m sure, but obviously the scenario gave me more than the taste of something delicious.)
I have paid more than $100 for food/drinks before, I’m sure, but obviously the scenario gave me more than the taste of something delicious.
Well clearly alcohol also gives you something more than the taste of something delicious. But your claim is that practically no one likes the taste of alcohol, and I don’t think you really have enough evidence to support that.
And yes, that is clearly where we differ. I’ve in the past paid hundreds or thousands of dollars mostly just for particular sensory experiences, and could see much wealthier people being willing to pay a lot more.
ETA: Also, I’m skeptical of a monocausal explanation of anything. It seems much more likely to me that people like both the taste and intoxicating effects of alcohol, than that they just like the effects and erroneously report liking the taste.
I prefer the taste of wine to the taste of milkshakes.
I would much rather drink wine than (sickly sweet) milkshakes if given the choice between them.
If only one were on offer, though, I would drink whichever was on offer.
But if I had the option to choose to pay for one or the other—I would choose to pay for wine… even if it were more expensive. I’d do this even if there were no alcohol. Even if there were no other people around to show off my status to.
because it tastes better (to me) ie—it ranks higher in my preference ordering purely on taste.
It doesn’t matter how many people you find that have a different preference ordering to mine… the fact that even just one person has their preference ordering this way around says that your theory is incorrect.
Given the variety of counterarguments you have been exposed to, I would think that re-examining the claim with stricter scientific controls would be appropriate.
Really? The quality of the counterarguments doesn’t matter, just their variety?
I’m going to refer back to Science isn’t Strict Enough. The observations I’ve made simply shouldn’t happen if the predominant theory, (“People accurately describe how much they like the taste of alcohol”) were true. The fact that I didn’t set up scientific controls doesn’t change this.
If wine were really so great tasting, worth analyzing all the subtle nuances, worth paying obscene amounts for the best wines, there simply shouldn’t be a wine expert who prefers the taste of milkshakes to the taste of the best wine. That observation forces an huge update in beliefs, even before an official experiement.
If anything, the ones who should be updating are those who are suprised to see people coming out of the woodwork and admitting they actually don’t like the taste of alcohol.
*sighs*
Something which is true is true whichever way you approach it. The variety of counterarguments—all of which are good arguments, I would not cite them otherwise—shows that many angles of approach to your claim show contrary evidence. So far as I have been informed, your personal evidence is not so overwhelming as to require our contrary evidence to be explained by other means. While it is interesting that your peers predominantly prefer the flavor of milkshakes to their favorite alcoholic beverages, more than that is needed to show that millions of people are deluding themselves.
I can’t believe you’re still making this case. While I don’t personally much value the opinions of ‘wine experts’, I see no contradiction in:
Wine is great-tasting and worth spending lots of money on.
Some wine experts like the taste of milkshakes better than the taste of wine.
In fact, I would be surprised if there were no wine experts who preferred the taste of milkshakes, even if it were the case that most people prefer the taste of wine. People like many things, all at the same time, to different degrees.
I so far haven’t observed anyone acting surprised that there are people who don’t like the taste of alcohol. Straw man?
I guess you haven’t met anyone I’ve talked to in person about this...
Well, this is where we disagree. I can’t imagine there being something with such exquisite taste that I’d be willing to pay $100 just to experience that taste, when it’s not even better than a milkshake. (I have paid more than $100 for food/drinks before, I’m sure, but obviously the scenario gave me more than the taste of something delicious.)
Well clearly alcohol also gives you something more than the taste of something delicious. But your claim is that practically no one likes the taste of alcohol, and I don’t think you really have enough evidence to support that.
And yes, that is clearly where we differ. I’ve in the past paid hundreds or thousands of dollars mostly just for particular sensory experiences, and could see much wealthier people being willing to pay a lot more.
ETA: Also, I’m skeptical of a monocausal explanation of anything. It seems much more likely to me that people like both the taste and intoxicating effects of alcohol, than that they just like the effects and erroneously report liking the taste.
I prefer the taste of wine to the taste of milkshakes. I would much rather drink wine than (sickly sweet) milkshakes if given the choice between them.
If only one were on offer, though, I would drink whichever was on offer. But if I had the option to choose to pay for one or the other—I would choose to pay for wine… even if it were more expensive. I’d do this even if there were no alcohol. Even if there were no other people around to show off my status to. because it tastes better (to me) ie—it ranks higher in my preference ordering purely on taste.
It doesn’t matter how many people you find that have a different preference ordering to mine… the fact that even just one person has their preference ordering this way around says that your theory is incorrect.