But everyone has had some kind of pleasure centre training, so how do you tell the two things apart?
This feels like a wrong question.
Is there even such a thing as “natural good taste?” or are there only the pleasure center configuration that newborns start out with?
I can attest to knowing several people who don’t like sweet candy or sweet things in general, even though that should be one of the “natural” preferences, and I don’t think one would have to look that much for someone who wouldn’t eat pure blubber, even though that is also one of these evolutinary encoded thingies.
That statement comes from my experience in cooking. The interesting thing in gastronomy is that the spices don’t really matter as long as you don’t use too many of them.
In my own vocabulary I like to distinguish the concepts “taste” and “aroma” as pertaining to “tastebuds” and “olfactory bulb” respectively. Indeed when people say “this tastes like garlic” they mean “this smells like garlic.” This is also why unpleasant tasting things taste less unpleasant when you block your nasal passages by some means.
There are five different types of taste buds:
One kind reacts to alcohol groups on small organic molecules, i.e. fructose, glucose, aspartame, sorbitol ans so on, “sweet taste.”
One kind reacts to hydronium ions (or rather contains a direct protone channel,) “sour taste.”
One kind reacts to sodium Ions, “salt taste.”
One kind reacts to many amino acids, “savory taste.”
One kind reacts to a variety of manily toxic and some non-toxic compounds, “bitter taste.”
The interesting thing is this: If two or more of the above are balanced, the overall sensory stimulous is percieved as “pleasant.” This is why soda has acid as well as sugar content, this is why kitchen salt is almost universally used (especially many kinds of meat which usually only needs salt), this is why coffee goes well with sugar and milk (milk neutralizes some of the otherwise high acid content).
Once your dish has the five basic tastes in balance you can literally add any aromas to it and it will still taste “pleasant.”
The working of taste buds varies from person to person, too: IIRC there’s a substance which tastes extremely sweet to some people but nearly flavourless to others.
There are other sensations in the mouth than the five basic tastes, e.g. the hotness of ethanol and capsaicin and the coldness of mint.
What “balanced” means depends on what you’re used to, to some extent: if I get used to put lots of salt on everything, when I don’t anything tastes insipid, and conversely if I get used to use very little salt, the reverse happens. (Hell, even if I get used to drinking high-mineral bottled water then low-mineral tap water will taste bitter to me, and conversely now that I usually drink tap water, some bottled water tastes salty to me.)
The working of taste buds varies from person to person, too: IIRC there’s a substance which tastes extremely sweet to some people but nearly flavourless to others.
In as far as I have ever heard that is only the case with bitter taste which is a far more compound tastebud. I would like to see any studies on a supertaster in terms of sweetness.
There are other sensations in the mouth than the five basic tastes, e.g. the hotness of ethanol and capsaicin and the coldness of mint.
These are triggerings of of the cold, heat and pain receptors which are completely different from taste receptors. If you want to argue that you have to argue consistency and texture of the foodstufss as well. I am presenting a simplified view, akin to if you just sprayed flavoured liquid onto the tongue and measured neural activity in the olfactory bulb and taste buds.
If you aren’t used to eating capsaicin the heat and pain sensations completely overpower the tastes and aromas, if you are used to it, we are again reduced to balancing the five basic taste sensation.
What “balanced” means depends on what you’re used to, to some extent: if I get used to put lots of salt on everything, when I don’t anything tastes insipid, and conversely if I get used to use very little salt, the reverse happens. (Hell, even if I get used to drinking high-mineral bottled water then low-mineral tap water will taste bitter to me, and conversely now that I usually drink tap water, some bottled water tastes salty to me.)
Yes, but that is returning to neural artifacts of individuals, is it not?
This feels like a wrong question.
Is there even such a thing as “natural good taste?” or are there only the pleasure center configuration that newborns start out with?
I can attest to knowing several people who don’t like sweet candy or sweet things in general, even though that should be one of the “natural” preferences, and I don’t think one would have to look that much for someone who wouldn’t eat pure blubber, even though that is also one of these evolutinary encoded thingies.
So what did you mean by “Pleasant Taste is within reasonable limits an exact science”?
That statement comes from my experience in cooking. The interesting thing in gastronomy is that the spices don’t really matter as long as you don’t use too many of them.
In my own vocabulary I like to distinguish the concepts “taste” and “aroma” as pertaining to “tastebuds” and “olfactory bulb” respectively. Indeed when people say “this tastes like garlic” they mean “this smells like garlic.” This is also why unpleasant tasting things taste less unpleasant when you block your nasal passages by some means.
There are five different types of taste buds:
One kind reacts to alcohol groups on small organic molecules, i.e. fructose, glucose, aspartame, sorbitol ans so on, “sweet taste.”
One kind reacts to hydronium ions (or rather contains a direct protone channel,) “sour taste.”
One kind reacts to sodium Ions, “salt taste.”
One kind reacts to many amino acids, “savory taste.”
One kind reacts to a variety of manily toxic and some non-toxic compounds, “bitter taste.”
The interesting thing is this: If two or more of the above are balanced, the overall sensory stimulous is percieved as “pleasant.” This is why soda has acid as well as sugar content, this is why kitchen salt is almost universally used (especially many kinds of meat which usually only needs salt), this is why coffee goes well with sugar and milk (milk neutralizes some of the otherwise high acid content).
Once your dish has the five basic tastes in balance you can literally add any aromas to it and it will still taste “pleasant.”
A few things:
The working of taste buds varies from person to person, too: IIRC there’s a substance which tastes extremely sweet to some people but nearly flavourless to others.
There are other sensations in the mouth than the five basic tastes, e.g. the hotness of ethanol and capsaicin and the coldness of mint.
What “balanced” means depends on what you’re used to, to some extent: if I get used to put lots of salt on everything, when I don’t anything tastes insipid, and conversely if I get used to use very little salt, the reverse happens. (Hell, even if I get used to drinking high-mineral bottled water then low-mineral tap water will taste bitter to me, and conversely now that I usually drink tap water, some bottled water tastes salty to me.)
In as far as I have ever heard that is only the case with bitter taste which is a far more compound tastebud. I would like to see any studies on a supertaster in terms of sweetness.
These are triggerings of of the cold, heat and pain receptors which are completely different from taste receptors. If you want to argue that you have to argue consistency and texture of the foodstufss as well. I am presenting a simplified view, akin to if you just sprayed flavoured liquid onto the tongue and measured neural activity in the olfactory bulb and taste buds. If you aren’t used to eating capsaicin the heat and pain sensations completely overpower the tastes and aromas, if you are used to it, we are again reduced to balancing the five basic taste sensation.
Yes, but that is returning to neural artifacts of individuals, is it not?
Sure, so long as you acknowledge that neural artifacts of the same individual can change with time.
You apparently replied to one of my retracted posts.
I no longer agree with the opinion stated by my past self; though good point.