to give a specific example of guru frame control: Several sources on the cult NXIVM describe the “NXIVM flip”. Whenever someone brought up a complaint they weren’t merely told “that’s not true” or “that’s actually good”, they were told “the fact that you are bringing this up indicates a flaw in you” (and then they were punished for it, but I don’t think that’s required for it to be frame control). The frame control was in insisting that all complaints were facts about the complainer and not the thing they were complaining about.
I don’t think the things raemon describes are necessarily frame control. They’re broad descriptors that include frame control but also other forms of manipulation. Elsewhere he has said he didn’t mean to claim it was frame control, so seems like we’re on the same page.
to give a specific example of guru frame control: Several sources on the cult NXIVM describe the “NXIVM flip”. Whenever someone brought up a complaint they weren’t merely told “that’s not true” or “that’s actually good”, they were told “the fact that you are bringing this up indicates a flaw in you” (and then they were punished for it, but I don’t think that’s required for it to be frame control). The frame control was in insisting that all complaints were facts about the complainer and not the thing they were complaining about.
I don’t think the things raemon describes are necessarily frame control. They’re broad descriptors that include frame control but also other forms of manipulation. Elsewhere he has said he didn’t mean to claim it was frame control, so seems like we’re on the same page.