We have talked about it quite a bit, and I don’t believe that we’re a cult. However, in every conversation I play out in my head where I try to talk about what we’re doing here with someone who’s not part of it, they start to think we’re a cult within about thirty seconds. I’m almost thinking of using “I’ve joined a cult” as my opening line, to get it out of the way.
I’m almost thinking of using “I’ve joined a cult” as my opening line, to get it out of the way.
I have been tempted to say “Oh, that cult Paul joined? I joined it too. It’s pretty good. … No, it’s a bit complicated. You probably don’t want to join.”
However, in every conversation I play out in my head where I try to talk about what we’re doing here with someone who’s not part of it, they start to think we’re a cult within about thirty seconds.
No, no, no… It’s not a cult, you’ve just joined the “movement” to “promote greater awareness” of the “cause” of rationality. ;-)
Speculation: The best way to avoid looking like a cult may, in fact, be to call ourselves one in an obviously joking fashion. Something that’s half Discordianism, half Bayesian Conspiracy.
This is indeed a tempting avenue of attack, but we must resist the temptation these other organisations go for to hide in obscurity of language and trying to sound clever, emphasising actually being clever instead. This is one reason I think the dojo metaphor is such a mistake—we must at all costs speak straightforwardly, and be seen to do so.
Seems more like a political party in form than a cult per se. Putting aside the distasteful connotations of the word politics, most political parties are (or at least were at their inception) groupings of people who agree on a set of values and a philosophy.
Most cults don’t permit the degree of participation from peripheral semi-lurkers who only fractionally accept the principles that this site does.
Anyway I voted the post down because these meta-discussions are boring.
What bores you is obviously way too subjective for me to discuss further, but if you think that good is unlikely to come of this discussion, I’d be interested to know why.
A serious question deserves a serious answer so here it is, even though as a peripheral semi-lurker it’s probably not relevant to your program. My motivations for coming here are entertainment on the one hand, and trawling for insights and ideas I can use at work.
I’m a rationalist, but not a Rationalist. I cringe at the idea of a self-identified Rationalist movement or organisation in the same way I cringe at Richard Dawkin’s ‘Bright’ movement. I think there is a danger of a sort of philosophical isolationism where participants forget that rationalism and materialism are alive and well in many scientific professional societies, political organisations, educational institutions and families.
I never said no good would come from the discussion—I sincerely hope you accomplish something worthwhile.
There are of course plenty of rationalists who aren’t here, but I think they would benefit from learning about some of the stuff we take for granted here. If there are other attempts to develop a complete (FSVO) and consistent programme for what rationalism is and how to achieve it, I’d like to know more about them.
One other quick remark.
We have talked about it quite a bit, and I don’t believe that we’re a cult. However, in every conversation I play out in my head where I try to talk about what we’re doing here with someone who’s not part of it, they start to think we’re a cult within about thirty seconds. I’m almost thinking of using “I’ve joined a cult” as my opening line, to get it out of the way.
That’s almost exactly the phrase I used when I pointed this place out to my friends. I added one word though: “I’ve joined another cult.” I said.
I find that if I talk as though all my groups of friends are cults of various kinds that it takes the “You’re in a cult” wind out of their sails.
“Yes, I’m in lots of cults, including this one here with you in it too.”
Don’t think any of the members of my other cults have wondered in this direction yet though.
I have been tempted to say “Oh, that cult Paul joined? I joined it too. It’s pretty good. … No, it’s a bit complicated. You probably don’t want to join.”
(I swear I have not done this.)
No, no, no… It’s not a cult, you’ve just joined the “movement” to “promote greater awareness” of the “cause” of rationality. ;-)
Speculation: The best way to avoid looking like a cult may, in fact, be to call ourselves one in an obviously joking fashion. Something that’s half Discordianism, half Bayesian Conspiracy.
This is indeed a tempting avenue of attack, but we must resist the temptation these other organisations go for to hide in obscurity of language and trying to sound clever, emphasising actually being clever instead. This is one reason I think the dojo metaphor is such a mistake—we must at all costs speak straightforwardly, and be seen to do so.
Seems more like a political party in form than a cult per se. Putting aside the distasteful connotations of the word politics, most political parties are (or at least were at their inception) groupings of people who agree on a set of values and a philosophy.
Most cults don’t permit the degree of participation from peripheral semi-lurkers who only fractionally accept the principles that this site does.
Anyway I voted the post down because these meta-discussions are boring.
What bores you is obviously way too subjective for me to discuss further, but if you think that good is unlikely to come of this discussion, I’d be interested to know why.
A serious question deserves a serious answer so here it is, even though as a peripheral semi-lurker it’s probably not relevant to your program. My motivations for coming here are entertainment on the one hand, and trawling for insights and ideas I can use at work.
I’m a rationalist, but not a Rationalist. I cringe at the idea of a self-identified Rationalist movement or organisation in the same way I cringe at Richard Dawkin’s ‘Bright’ movement. I think there is a danger of a sort of philosophical isolationism where participants forget that rationalism and materialism are alive and well in many scientific professional societies, political organisations, educational institutions and families.
I never said no good would come from the discussion—I sincerely hope you accomplish something worthwhile.
I agree with you about “Brights”.
There are of course plenty of rationalists who aren’t here, but I think they would benefit from learning about some of the stuff we take for granted here. If there are other attempts to develop a complete (FSVO) and consistent programme for what rationalism is and how to achieve it, I’d like to know more about them.