I read books during school. Looking back, this seems like it was a strongly suboptimal use of my time, because most of the books I read were fiction.
I think that homeschooling or tutoring are the strongest options, followed by private school. Around 12ish I went to CTY, which teaches classes at college speed, and felt that was almost as fast as I would have liked, which was worlds better than normal. They appear to have online classes now.
He’s interested in computers and games- it might be worthwhile to focus 4 or so hours of his day into programming. Minecraft is moddable; there are similar games that focus on creating systems of things that do things. (Perhaps he would enjoy Spacechem? Not as “mess with the code” as I would like, but may at least be fun to think about.) (Someone to consider for inspiration: L Peter Deutsch.)
I strongly recommend against putting a gifted child in a school where they aren’t within a level of the median student. The losses involved from going too slow are just too huge, and basically everything that school can do can be gotten more cheaply elsewhere. (The primary argument that everyone trots out- ‘socializing’ children- seems like it has a negative effect to me. I’ve gotten palpably easier to deal with the smarter the people around me have been, and got measurably higher grades the harder my classes were, and I know too many people who are so used to making friends by being locked in a room with other people that they don’t know how adults make friends.)
Is it that unproductive to read a lot of fiction? I read extremely quickly and still retain a lot of what I read, and this seems to be quite a useful skill, and I’ve always assumed that one of the reasons I have this skill is because I read so much as a child. Admittedly, natural talent probably also plays a role, but surely the tremendous amount of practice helped a lot. And most of what I read as a child was fiction. Perhaps it would have been even more productive to read more non-fiction, but I’m not certain of that, and even if that were the case I’d have thought calling it “strongly” suboptimal was a little, well, strong.
I have the same skill and have found it’s a bit of a mixed blessing—because when reading tough technical stuff my brain still wants to process it at the same very high speed, which needs I constantly need to pay attention and keep my reading rate down because otherwise my eyes fly across the page and I take nothing in. Since a large fraction of what adult-me wants to read is tough technical stuff, superfast novel-reading isn’t necessarily a great trade for this.
Is it that unproductive to read a lot of fiction? I read extremely quickly and still retain a lot of what I read, and this seems to be quite a useful skill, and I’ve always assumed that one of the reasons I have this skill is because I read so much as a child.
I have the same experience. It could be that I wouldn’t have read nonfiction as voraciously, and less practice would result in less reading skill now. But I suspect that I read far past the point of diminishing returns.
I also do seem to have been interested in learning things, and so if they were presented at a faster speed I think I would have learned more. If I had been spending an hour a day on various required subjects like civics and history and English, which would have been enough, and four hours on self-paced math, I suspect I would be in a much better academic position than I am now. (This is what I’m thinking of when I said strongly suboptimal- if I were educating a child, I don’t think I would put 8 of their hours into fiction reading, though I might put 4.)
Good fiction is also an excellent way to build vocabulary, which is at least valuable for a child who wants to signal to colleges: “Look at my Verbal SAT score!”
Good fiction is also an excellent way to build vocabulary.
That seems like it should be true, but personal anecdata make me unsure. I scored 800 on the SAT verbal section. When I sat down for the exam, I had voluntarily read four fiction books in my entire life. People assumed I was well-read because I spoke like a book. In reality, I was afraid of reading and just spoke like my parents.
ETA: Studying flashcards build vocabulary faster than reading fiction. However, I could be convinced that reading fiction better improves fluency and eloquence.
Hmm… my word choice of “excellent” was unintentionally misleading. I didn’t want to imply that good fiction was a fast way of building vocabulary; you could be much more efficient with flashcards. But if a child’s willpower isn’t at the “happy to study flashcards in place of entertainment” point, then it’s still worthwhile to find activities which are entertaining but also educational, then save the flash cards for subjects where you can’t find such substitutes.
Right. My anecdote isn’t directly contrary evidence, but it is a contrary hint. If reading fiction were an excellent way to build vocabulary, I’d expect to see acquaintances who avidly read fiction to have larger vocabularies than acquaintances who don’t read fiction. This is not what I see.
It might be that my acquaintance sample is weird. It might be that avid fiction readers fluidly express themselves with simple words where the less well-read resort to obscure vocabulary. But (over)generalizing from my personal experience, I (somewhat) suspect that people’s vocabulary has less to do with the fiction they read than is usually assumed.
I had a different model in mind. I think there’s a satiation point on exposure. If you were raised by consummately literate native English speakers, then perhaps you acquired a choate vocabulary simply by immersion in that environment. Additional reading of fiction therefore, will offer you only the meagerest of marginal improvements. Many people weren’t raised by excellent speakers of English though, and these individuals are the ones more likely to gain from increased exposure.
Would you make the same statement about the relationship between reading novels in Spanish or German and improving vocabulary in those languages?
I found CTY classes a little slow, but totally totally worth it for finding other people like me and making costumes, having discussions, doing network analysis on all hookups that had taken place during the session, etc.
I did CTY distance learning for writing and pre-calc. Didn’t like the writing program, but really liked precalc and used it to skip in HS and was much happier as a result.
I on the other hand, got a very good experience out of the CTY distance writing program. It forced me to clarify my thoughts and be conscientious about how I wrote for the first time. Also, as an 11-year-old who had gone through life with few to no challenges, it was an excellent opportunity to really have to work hard at something.
I read books during school. Looking back, this seems like it was a strongly suboptimal use of my time, because most of the books I read were fiction.
I think that homeschooling or tutoring are the strongest options, followed by private school. Around 12ish I went to CTY, which teaches classes at college speed, and felt that was almost as fast as I would have liked, which was worlds better than normal. They appear to have online classes now.
He’s interested in computers and games- it might be worthwhile to focus 4 or so hours of his day into programming. Minecraft is moddable; there are similar games that focus on creating systems of things that do things. (Perhaps he would enjoy Spacechem? Not as “mess with the code” as I would like, but may at least be fun to think about.) (Someone to consider for inspiration: L Peter Deutsch.)
I strongly recommend against putting a gifted child in a school where they aren’t within a level of the median student. The losses involved from going too slow are just too huge, and basically everything that school can do can be gotten more cheaply elsewhere. (The primary argument that everyone trots out- ‘socializing’ children- seems like it has a negative effect to me. I’ve gotten palpably easier to deal with the smarter the people around me have been, and got measurably higher grades the harder my classes were, and I know too many people who are so used to making friends by being locked in a room with other people that they don’t know how adults make friends.)
Is it that unproductive to read a lot of fiction? I read extremely quickly and still retain a lot of what I read, and this seems to be quite a useful skill, and I’ve always assumed that one of the reasons I have this skill is because I read so much as a child. Admittedly, natural talent probably also plays a role, but surely the tremendous amount of practice helped a lot. And most of what I read as a child was fiction. Perhaps it would have been even more productive to read more non-fiction, but I’m not certain of that, and even if that were the case I’d have thought calling it “strongly” suboptimal was a little, well, strong.
I have the same skill and have found it’s a bit of a mixed blessing—because when reading tough technical stuff my brain still wants to process it at the same very high speed, which needs I constantly need to pay attention and keep my reading rate down because otherwise my eyes fly across the page and I take nothing in. Since a large fraction of what adult-me wants to read is tough technical stuff, superfast novel-reading isn’t necessarily a great trade for this.
I have the same experience. It could be that I wouldn’t have read nonfiction as voraciously, and less practice would result in less reading skill now. But I suspect that I read far past the point of diminishing returns.
I also do seem to have been interested in learning things, and so if they were presented at a faster speed I think I would have learned more. If I had been spending an hour a day on various required subjects like civics and history and English, which would have been enough, and four hours on self-paced math, I suspect I would be in a much better academic position than I am now. (This is what I’m thinking of when I said strongly suboptimal- if I were educating a child, I don’t think I would put 8 of their hours into fiction reading, though I might put 4.)
Good fiction is also an excellent way to build vocabulary, which is at least valuable for a child who wants to signal to colleges: “Look at my Verbal SAT score!”
That seems like it should be true, but personal anecdata make me unsure. I scored 800 on the SAT verbal section. When I sat down for the exam, I had voluntarily read four fiction books in my entire life. People assumed I was well-read because I spoke like a book. In reality, I was afraid of reading and just spoke like my parents.
ETA: Studying flashcards build vocabulary faster than reading fiction. However, I could be convinced that reading fiction better improves fluency and eloquence.
Hmm… my word choice of “excellent” was unintentionally misleading. I didn’t want to imply that good fiction was a fast way of building vocabulary; you could be much more efficient with flashcards. But if a child’s willpower isn’t at the “happy to study flashcards in place of entertainment” point, then it’s still worthwhile to find activities which are entertaining but also educational, then save the flash cards for subjects where you can’t find such substitutes.
Agreed.
If fiction then vocabulary does not imply if not fiction then not vocabulary.
The truth value of the inverse doesn’t follow the truth value of the original statement.
Right. My anecdote isn’t directly contrary evidence, but it is a contrary hint. If reading fiction were an excellent way to build vocabulary, I’d expect to see acquaintances who avidly read fiction to have larger vocabularies than acquaintances who don’t read fiction. This is not what I see.
It might be that my acquaintance sample is weird. It might be that avid fiction readers fluidly express themselves with simple words where the less well-read resort to obscure vocabulary. But (over)generalizing from my personal experience, I (somewhat) suspect that people’s vocabulary has less to do with the fiction they read than is usually assumed.
I had a different model in mind. I think there’s a satiation point on exposure. If you were raised by consummately literate native English speakers, then perhaps you acquired a choate vocabulary simply by immersion in that environment. Additional reading of fiction therefore, will offer you only the meagerest of marginal improvements. Many people weren’t raised by excellent speakers of English though, and these individuals are the ones more likely to gain from increased exposure.
Would you make the same statement about the relationship between reading novels in Spanish or German and improving vocabulary in those languages?
I am not in a position to give even aniqudata on that.
I found CTY classes a little slow, but totally totally worth it for finding other people like me and making costumes, having discussions, doing network analysis on all hookups that had taken place during the session, etc.
I did CTY distance learning for writing and pre-calc. Didn’t like the writing program, but really liked precalc and used it to skip in HS and was much happier as a result.
I on the other hand, got a very good experience out of the CTY distance writing program. It forced me to clarify my thoughts and be conscientious about how I wrote for the first time. Also, as an 11-year-old who had gone through life with few to no challenges, it was an excellent opportunity to really have to work hard at something.
Thanks, he has and likes Spacechem.