In particular, there is something happening here that I notice myself wanting to narrativize as weaponized disingenuousness (which is probably not Ben’s intention) that’s like …
I’m just interested in people … not attributing to me things that I did not in fact say.
… politely following the rules, over here in this thread, and by example of virtuous action making me seem unreasonable for not wanting to reply …
… whereas over in the other thread, I get the impression that this exact rule is the one he was breaking (e.g. when he explicitly asserted that I want to ghettoize people, when what I said was that we could treat people who found punch bug norms highly costly in a manner analogous to how we treat people with peanut allergies (to the best of my knowledge, there is no ghetto in which we confine people with peanut allergies)).
It reminds me of the phrase peace treaties are not suicide pacts. In fact the norm Ben is pushing for here is one I already follow, the vast majority of the time, except in cases where I see the other person as having already repeatedly demonstrated that they don’t hold themselves to the same standard. I don’t like being made to look bad for having a superseding principle prevent me from proving, in this case, that I am in fact principled in this way, too.
My favorite world would be one in which someone else would reliably make points such as this one, and so I could disengage in this particular likely-to-be-on-tilt case, while also feeling that all the things which “need” to be said will be taken care of.
Duncan’s comment here persuaded me to go search for cases where my use of “ghetto” was ambiguous between quoting Duncan and making a claim about what his proposal implied. I’ve added clarifying notes in the cases that seemed possibly ambiguous to me. If anyone (including but not limited to Duncan) points out cases I’ve missed, and I agree that they’re potentially ambiguous, I’ll be happy to correct those as well.
I still stand by the claim, but it’s important to distinguish that claim from a false impression that Duncan said that he envisioned ghettoes for people who don’t want to play punchbug. He didn’t say that.
One thing that makes Duncan’s criticisms comparatively easy to evaluate here is that he’s grounding things in the object level text with a fairly high degree of precision. I don’t always agree with the criticisms, and sometimes strongly dispute his characterization of what I meant (though that’s at least evidence that something I wrote was unclear), of course.
In particular, there is something happening here that I notice myself wanting to narrativize as weaponized disingenuousness (which is probably not Ben’s intention) that’s like …
… politely following the rules, over here in this thread, and by example of virtuous action making me seem unreasonable for not wanting to reply …
… whereas over in the other thread, I get the impression that this exact rule is the one he was breaking (e.g. when he explicitly asserted that I want to ghettoize people, when what I said was that we could treat people who found punch bug norms highly costly in a manner analogous to how we treat people with peanut allergies (to the best of my knowledge, there is no ghetto in which we confine people with peanut allergies)).
It reminds me of the phrase peace treaties are not suicide pacts. In fact the norm Ben is pushing for here is one I already follow, the vast majority of the time, except in cases where I see the other person as having already repeatedly demonstrated that they don’t hold themselves to the same standard. I don’t like being made to look bad for having a superseding principle prevent me from proving, in this case, that I am in fact principled in this way, too.
My favorite world would be one in which someone else would reliably make points such as this one, and so I could disengage in this particular likely-to-be-on-tilt case, while also feeling that all the things which “need” to be said will be taken care of.
Duncan’s comment here persuaded me to go search for cases where my use of “ghetto” was ambiguous between quoting Duncan and making a claim about what his proposal implied. I’ve added clarifying notes in the cases that seemed possibly ambiguous to me. If anyone (including but not limited to Duncan) points out cases I’ve missed, and I agree that they’re potentially ambiguous, I’ll be happy to correct those as well.
I still stand by the claim, but it’s important to distinguish that claim from a false impression that Duncan said that he envisioned ghettoes for people who don’t want to play punchbug. He didn’t say that.
One thing that makes Duncan’s criticisms comparatively easy to evaluate here is that he’s grounding things in the object level text with a fairly high degree of precision. I don’t always agree with the criticisms, and sometimes strongly dispute his characterization of what I meant (though that’s at least evidence that something I wrote was unclear), of course.
Upvoted, and appreciated on a visceral, emotional level.