I don’t understand why so many people are writing My Little Pony fan fictions here. Does the show have some content that appeals to lesswrong-type rationalists? Isn’t it targeted toward little kids? This just seems bizarre.
I write MLP fan-fiction under the name Bad Horse. I’ll skip the reasons why I write fan-fiction. There are a few reasons I chose to write ponyfiction as opposed to other types:
There are only a few large, active fandoms: Harry Potter, Twilight, Avatar, Naruto, and My Little Pony.
The ponyfiction websites are much better-designed than those for the other fandoms. There are no fanfic websites for any other fandom that have a ratings system, so it’s too much work to find anything good to read. And I didn’t want to just write and not be a member of the community. Even if I were arrogant enough to do that, it wouldn’t work very well even from a completely Slytherin viewpoint. This is the most-important factor.
You can write anything as ponyfic. If you want to write a story about an old woman whose children have left and who has refocused her attention on her flower garden, and a travelling salesman who figures this out and manipulates her love of flowers to sell her something, and you wanted to do it as a Harry Potter fanfic, you’d have to make her use spells to grow her garden, or something stupid like that. I can’t even imagine how you’d do that as a Twilight or Naruto fanfic. But anything becomes a ponyfic when you make the characters ponies. This is probably why I like My Little Pony. Harry Potter is about the wizarding world. Avatar is about a world war. MLP is about people.
The short version: the show is good and sincere (but trying it in the first place requires high openness), a large subset of LW’s current readers are into fanfiction, and the brony community in general creates lots of fan materials.
The 4th generation of the show started 2 years ago, and is very well-made, is happy, and less targeted at little girls than the previous versions. Generally, boys shows got more talent and funding because network execs knew that both boys and girls would watch boy shows but only girls would watch girl shows- which was, in part, a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why watch technically inferior shows? (Most male fans of the current generation find the design of previous generations hideous; I don’t know how the female fans feel about it.) The show still has a definite feminine feel- the protagonists are all female, and the majority of the episodes center around personal interactions and friendship problems- but there are also “save the world” adventure episodes, and a strong diversity among the characters in terms of both skill and personality. The personalities are iconic and basic enough that most fans identify strongly with at least one of the characters.
I only gave the show a try, though, when I needed to watch television and had watched every other show on Netflix made in the last five years that I expected to enjoy. (I was only recommended it once or twice.) Hearing that a show for little girls is actually good and giving that hypothesis enough credence to watch the show seems like something that requires high openness- which is a trait I suspect is associated with being an LWer. (When much of your social circle approves of it, the amount of openness required is obviously lower.)
One of the things about the show that’s polarizing is that it’s very sincere. Ponies are, in general, happy and like each other. Compare to, say, Watchmen or The Wire. One way to show sophistication in modern society is by appreciation of irony, but LWers strke me as more likely to construct their identities out of sincere enjoyment rather than ironic enjoyment. The sentiment that, really, 2+2=4 and, really, capitalism creates wealth seem to resonate here much more than they do in some other places. Somewhat related, it seems possible that people who are less socially adept are more likely to become bronies, but I don’t have enough details there to more than speculate.
As for writing fanfictions, I found LW through HPMoR; when I heard “here’s some Harry Potter fanfiction, and it’s really good” my response was “okay, I’ll give it a read” not “fanfiction? And for a children’s book?” Similarly, once I started watching MLP I started consuming a lot of MLP fanfiction- and so after a while the thought of “hey, why not write my own fanfiction?” popped up more and more frequently until I put pen to paper.
Would you prefer “free enterprise is a method of organizing society that leads to more wealth across the whole of society than its competitors by allowing individuals to create more wealth than would otherwise be possible”?
That’s much more meaningful, but, conversely, it’s truth is largely dependent on what one means by “free enterprise”, “wealth creation”, and how one goes about measuring “wealth”.
There is an entire subculture called ‘bronies’ of adult fans of the show. My best guess is that the demographics of LessWrong readers come closer than average to the demographics of bronies, and so there is a higher-than-average chance of a LessWronger being willing to be a brony.
As for why the show is popular among adults; the best theory I’ve heard is that unlike many modern cartoons, it’s unashamedly non-cynical, and is actually reasonably-decently written and produced, which makes it near-unique at the moment.
I was (at one point) working on an anti-death MLP fic after having read through the admittedly very well-written fic “Eternal”, but I got distracted by job hunting and other such trivial things. Maybe once I’m settled I can begin again?
Oh, and I am going to read any and all MLP rationalist fanfics that I can find.
Funny you should say that. I’m currently about a third of the way through writing an anti-death fic written as a reaction to Eternal and some similar stories. Let me know when I can read yours; I’m quite curious to see how you approached it.
Funny you should say funny you should say that. Eternal is one of the few ponyfics that EDIT is anti-death, in that there’s a point where Celestia reflects on how people have speculated that it must torture her to see everyone she knows die, but she still enjoys living, thank you very much.
I’ve got my own mostly-anti-death ponyfic, in second round at EqD, but you can see it here. I don’t know if EqD will ever approve it, as it’s inherently thinky, but I did get a revision request, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
ADDED: On further reflection, my story isn’t about being anti-death. That’s just a plot point.
MLP fanfiction is generally anti-death? I’m surprised.
If that’s true, that’s quite interesting. MLP is a half-plausible utopia which unlike many utopias seems like it would be an upgrade over the real world (I’m surprised Eliezer hasn’t done a post analyzing MLP from his Fun Theory perspective yet EDIT: see Friendship is Optimal); do such half-plausible utopias defeat the usual deathist memes? If so, that seems like evidence for the basic thesis of http://lesswrong.com/lw/6vq/on_the_unpopularity_of_cryonics_life_sucks_but_at/ - people don’t care much about life extension like cryonics (and hence, any anti-deathist arguments) because their lives are not that great.
I wonder how one would investigate this… there aren’t many quasi-utopias available with large fanfic communities. There’s probably a correlation between pessimism-optimism and deathism; are MLP fans both more optimistic and anti-death or more interestingly, are they pessimistic but anti-death when MLP primed? (The most obvious comparison, the Harry Potter-verse, is both explicitly pro-death and also too contemporary and flawed a world to really work.)
Oh. Well, +1 for me for being surprised by a falsity, I guess. Although I wish it had been true since it’s more interesting than the truth and could’ve been interesting (a silver bullet for deathism? Sign me up!).
MLP is pro-death only in one way: There are two characters who are immortal, and people feel sorry for them because everyone they know keeps dying. The show doesn’t talk about this, but the fanfiction does, and refers to the curse of immortality in this context.
Oh, I remember that one. It was setting off my LW sense even before you got to the bit with the dragon. I’ll try to take a look at the second version later tonight, unless the original reviewer or someone else does it first.
Can you link me some of those anti-death stories you’re thinking of? I’ve seen quite a few about ponies coping with death, but aside from yours, I don’t know of any that engage with the idea of overcoming death as a whole. I’d be interested to see what people have written on the subject.
It hasn’t been posted yet, but I am looking for alpha readers at the moment. Send me a PM if you’re interested. I don’t work at anywhere near 2k words a day (well, on this at least- I have other nonfiction writing projects going on), and so I don’t expect it’ll be as long as yours or update as frequently.
But on the other hand, it might lead to crippling anxiety, constant comparison, attempts at one-upmanship which jump the shark, fear, and self-loathing. Can you really take that chance?
I’m made of sterner stuff than that! And if they’re not, well, sucks to be them :P
So far, the premise of mine and the premise of DataPacRat’s seem very different, and so it’s not clear how rivalrous comparisons will be. (I’ve only read the first chapter of theirs so far.)
Oh this makes so much more sense. Could have sworn I had seen more than one person talking about MLP rationalist fanfic (or more accurately, when Vaniver was talking about their fic, I specifically thought I recalled “some name that wasn’t Vaniver” having talked about it before).
Once in the previous year I also mentioned that I had an idea about rationalist MLP too—but I’ve not worked on it any, and the way I’m going I currently doubt I’ll ever work on it.
Vaniver is going to be so mad when he sees this.
There are now three people that I’m aware of writing one (counting me). Competition leads to higher quality!
I don’t understand why so many people are writing My Little Pony fan fictions here. Does the show have some content that appeals to lesswrong-type rationalists? Isn’t it targeted toward little kids? This just seems bizarre.
I write MLP fan-fiction under the name Bad Horse. I’ll skip the reasons why I write fan-fiction. There are a few reasons I chose to write ponyfiction as opposed to other types:
There are only a few large, active fandoms: Harry Potter, Twilight, Avatar, Naruto, and My Little Pony.
The ponyfiction websites are much better-designed than those for the other fandoms. There are no fanfic websites for any other fandom that have a ratings system, so it’s too much work to find anything good to read. And I didn’t want to just write and not be a member of the community. Even if I were arrogant enough to do that, it wouldn’t work very well even from a completely Slytherin viewpoint. This is the most-important factor.
You can write anything as ponyfic. If you want to write a story about an old woman whose children have left and who has refocused her attention on her flower garden, and a travelling salesman who figures this out and manipulates her love of flowers to sell her something, and you wanted to do it as a Harry Potter fanfic, you’d have to make her use spells to grow her garden, or something stupid like that. I can’t even imagine how you’d do that as a Twilight or Naruto fanfic. But anything becomes a ponyfic when you make the characters ponies. This is probably why I like My Little Pony. Harry Potter is about the wizarding world. Avatar is about a world war. MLP is about people.
Mind blown, then blown again.
The short version: the show is good and sincere (but trying it in the first place requires high openness), a large subset of LW’s current readers are into fanfiction, and the brony community in general creates lots of fan materials.
The 4th generation of the show started 2 years ago, and is very well-made, is happy, and less targeted at little girls than the previous versions. Generally, boys shows got more talent and funding because network execs knew that both boys and girls would watch boy shows but only girls would watch girl shows- which was, in part, a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why watch technically inferior shows? (Most male fans of the current generation find the design of previous generations hideous; I don’t know how the female fans feel about it.) The show still has a definite feminine feel- the protagonists are all female, and the majority of the episodes center around personal interactions and friendship problems- but there are also “save the world” adventure episodes, and a strong diversity among the characters in terms of both skill and personality. The personalities are iconic and basic enough that most fans identify strongly with at least one of the characters.
I only gave the show a try, though, when I needed to watch television and had watched every other show on Netflix made in the last five years that I expected to enjoy. (I was only recommended it once or twice.) Hearing that a show for little girls is actually good and giving that hypothesis enough credence to watch the show seems like something that requires high openness- which is a trait I suspect is associated with being an LWer. (When much of your social circle approves of it, the amount of openness required is obviously lower.)
One of the things about the show that’s polarizing is that it’s very sincere. Ponies are, in general, happy and like each other. Compare to, say, Watchmen or The Wire. One way to show sophistication in modern society is by appreciation of irony, but LWers strke me as more likely to construct their identities out of sincere enjoyment rather than ironic enjoyment. The sentiment that, really, 2+2=4 and, really, capitalism creates wealth seem to resonate here much more than they do in some other places. Somewhat related, it seems possible that people who are less socially adept are more likely to become bronies, but I don’t have enough details there to more than speculate.
As for writing fanfictions, I found LW through HPMoR; when I heard “here’s some Harry Potter fanfiction, and it’s really good” my response was “okay, I’ll give it a read” not “fanfiction? And for a children’s book?” Similarly, once I started watching MLP I started consuming a lot of MLP fanfiction- and so after a while the thought of “hey, why not write my own fanfiction?” popped up more and more frequently until I put pen to paper.
Applause Lights warning; the phrase is true, just not very meaningful.
Would you prefer “free enterprise is a method of organizing society that leads to more wealth across the whole of society than its competitors by allowing individuals to create more wealth than would otherwise be possible”?
That’s much more meaningful, but, conversely, it’s truth is largely dependent on what one means by “free enterprise”, “wealth creation”, and how one goes about measuring “wealth”.
There is an entire subculture called ‘bronies’ of adult fans of the show. My best guess is that the demographics of LessWrong readers come closer than average to the demographics of bronies, and so there is a higher-than-average chance of a LessWronger being willing to be a brony.
As for why the show is popular among adults; the best theory I’ve heard is that unlike many modern cartoons, it’s unashamedly non-cynical, and is actually reasonably-decently written and produced, which makes it near-unique at the moment.
I was (at one point) working on an anti-death MLP fic after having read through the admittedly very well-written fic “Eternal”, but I got distracted by job hunting and other such trivial things. Maybe once I’m settled I can begin again?
Oh, and I am going to read any and all MLP rationalist fanfics that I can find.
Funny you should say that. I’m currently about a third of the way through writing an anti-death fic written as a reaction to Eternal and some similar stories. Let me know when I can read yours; I’m quite curious to see how you approached it.
Funny you should say funny you should say that. Eternal is one of the few ponyfics that EDIT is anti-death, in that there’s a point where Celestia reflects on how people have speculated that it must torture her to see everyone she knows die, but she still enjoys living, thank you very much.
I’ve got my own mostly-anti-death ponyfic, in second round at EqD, but you can see it here. I don’t know if EqD will ever approve it, as it’s inherently thinky, but I did get a revision request, so I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
ADDED: On further reflection, my story isn’t about being anti-death. That’s just a plot point.
MLP fanfiction is generally anti-death? I’m surprised.
If that’s true, that’s quite interesting. MLP is a half-plausible utopia which unlike many utopias seems like it would be an upgrade over the real world (I’m surprised Eliezer hasn’t done a post analyzing MLP from his Fun Theory perspective yet EDIT: see Friendship is Optimal); do such half-plausible utopias defeat the usual deathist memes? If so, that seems like evidence for the basic thesis of http://lesswrong.com/lw/6vq/on_the_unpopularity_of_cryonics_life_sucks_but_at/ - people don’t care much about life extension like cryonics (and hence, any anti-deathist arguments) because their lives are not that great.
I wonder how one would investigate this… there aren’t many quasi-utopias available with large fanfic communities. There’s probably a correlation between pessimism-optimism and deathism; are MLP fans both more optimistic and anti-death or more interestingly, are they pessimistic but anti-death when MLP primed? (The most obvious comparison, the Harry Potter-verse, is both explicitly pro-death and also too contemporary and flawed a world to really work.)
No, MLP fanfic talks often about “the curse of immortality.” I typoed. I will fix it.
Oh. Well, +1 for me for being surprised by a falsity, I guess. Although I wish it had been true since it’s more interesting than the truth and could’ve been interesting (a silver bullet for deathism? Sign me up!).
MLP is pro-death only in one way: There are two characters who are immortal, and people feel sorry for them because everyone they know keeps dying. The show doesn’t talk about this, but the fanfiction does, and refers to the curse of immortality in this context.
CAUSE HERE WE ARE, WE’RE THE PRINCESSES OF THE UNIVERSE!
WE HAVE NO RIVALS! NO MARE CAN BE OUR EQUAL!
Oh, I remember that one. It was setting off my LW sense even before you got to the bit with the dragon. I’ll try to take a look at the second version later tonight, unless the original reviewer or someone else does it first.
Can you link me some of those anti-death stories you’re thinking of? I’ve seen quite a few about ponies coping with death, but aside from yours, I don’t know of any that engage with the idea of overcoming death as a whole. I’d be interested to see what people have written on the subject.
Sorry; did not see this reply until now. That was a typo; I meant pro-death stories.
I seem to be unable to find your story; may I ask if it’s been posted for reading anywhere?
It hasn’t been posted yet, but I am looking for alpha readers at the moment. Send me a PM if you’re interested. I don’t work at anywhere near 2k words a day (well, on this at least- I have other nonfiction writing projects going on), and so I don’t expect it’ll be as long as yours or update as frequently.
But on the other hand, it might lead to crippling anxiety, constant comparison, attempts at one-upmanship which jump the shark, fear, and self-loathing. Can you really take that chance?
I’m made of sterner stuff than that! And if they’re not, well, sucks to be them :P
So far, the premise of mine and the premise of DataPacRat’s seem very different, and so it’s not clear how rivalrous comparisons will be. (I’ve only read the first chapter of theirs so far.)
I look forward to your work!
Oh this makes so much more sense. Could have sworn I had seen more than one person talking about MLP rationalist fanfic (or more accurately, when Vaniver was talking about their fic, I specifically thought I recalled “some name that wasn’t Vaniver” having talked about it before).
iceman also mentioned writing one in their intro post.
Once in the previous year I also mentioned that I had an idea about rationalist MLP too—but I’ve not worked on it any, and the way I’m going I currently doubt I’ll ever work on it.