Unless I am misunderstanding, wouldn’t orthonormal say that “switching frames” is actually a thing not to do (and that it’s something post-rationalists do, which is in conflict with rationalist approaches)?
I believe the claim he was making (which I was endorsing), was to not switch frames in the middle of a conversation in a sort of slippery goal-post-moving way (especially repeatedly, without stopping to clarify that you’re doing that). That can result in poor communication.
I’ve previously talked a lot about noticing frame differences, which includes noticing when it’s time to switch frames, but within the rationalist paradigm, I’d argue this is a thing you should do intentionally when it’s appropriate for the situation, and flag when you’re doing it, and make sure that your interlocutor understands the new frame.
The rationalist way to handle multiple frames is to either treat them as different useful heuristics which can outperform naively optimizing from your known map, or as different hypotheses for the correct general frame, rather than as tactical gambits in a disagreement.
There’s a set of post-rationalist norms where switching frames isn’t a conversational gambit, it’s expected and part of generative process for solving problems and creating closeness. I would love to see people be able to switch between these different types of norms, as it can be equally frustrating when you’re trying to vibe with people who can only operate through rationalist frames.
Unless I am misunderstanding, wouldn’t orthonormal say that “switching frames” is actually a thing not to do (and that it’s something post-rationalists do, which is in conflict with rationalist approaches)?
I believe the claim he was making (which I was endorsing), was to not switch frames in the middle of a conversation in a sort of slippery goal-post-moving way (especially repeatedly, without stopping to clarify that you’re doing that). That can result in poor communication.
I’ve previously talked a lot about noticing frame differences, which includes noticing when it’s time to switch frames, but within the rationalist paradigm, I’d argue this is a thing you should do intentionally when it’s appropriate for the situation, and flag when you’re doing it, and make sure that your interlocutor understands the new frame.
I agree with this comment.
The rationalist way to handle multiple frames is to either treat them as different useful heuristics which can outperform naively optimizing from your known map, or as different hypotheses for the correct general frame, rather than as tactical gambits in a disagreement.
There’s a set of post-rationalist norms where switching frames isn’t a conversational gambit, it’s expected and part of generative process for solving problems and creating closeness. I would love to see people be able to switch between these different types of norms, as it can be equally frustrating when you’re trying to vibe with people who can only operate through rationalist frames.