With all the truth-seeking that goes around here it’s easy to forget that knowledge is not the ultimate value agreed upon by everyone and used as foundation for every other value. Not even close, and for good reasons.
Knowledge is not the goal behind most things we do. Yes, studying and research happen. Lots of other, not knowledge-focused activities happen aswell.
Knowledge is the byproduct of practically any activity. Whatever you do, it’s hard to avoid gaining some knowledge in the process. And that is precisely why “I’ll have more knowledge” is not a good argument to justify any activity. Picture the worst immoral action you can think of. If you perform it, you will be more knowledgeable about the world (probably in more ways that you can currently imagine).
“Reversed stupidity is not intelligence” is an idea that needed to be stated because it is counter-intuitive. We naturally tend to look for 2 matching opposite ideas that can be mapped onto “good-bad” intensity scale. Pick any pair of antonyms for simple example, or any pair of virtues and sins for example more relevant to this particular discussion. Because whatever is associated with an outgroup feels like sin and whatever is associated with ingroup feels like virtue.
But what is it about?
It’s mainly about associations.
The outgroup is bad. There are beliefs and behaviors associated with the outgroup. Therefore these beliefs and behaviors are bad. If I show any of these beliefs and behaviors people might think I’m bad.
Yes this is flawed logic, but it’s not something people think about logically in the first place. That’s just how we normally feel. And it’s important to remember that there can be consequences for signalling or lack of signalling. And people tend to care about these consequences way more than they care about abstract knowledge.
But of course your examples of it being harmful are valid
Some examples are cases where people in groups renowned for or labelled for some trait (e.g., jocks, supermodels) are stereotyped as “unintellectual” as part of their identity and thus hide or cut off their intellectual interests.
The opposite is also true, I’ve known some people who seriously neglected their health because they associated exercise with not-so-bright folks. Notice how it has the same process behind it, but it’s not related to knowledge the same way your example was. And I do agree that this is not a good basis for decision-making. It’s just it’s not always quite as simple as in these examples.
But should it be that way?
Maybe not. Maybe some people can transcend all the arbitrary norms, and avoid forming their own arbitrary norms, and find a way to interact with everyone else without signalling, and not end up practically exiled, but I’m not hopeful.
It’s something fairly difficult to do in practice and I’m yet to see examples of people succeeding at it long term.
The outgroup is bad. There are beliefs and behaviors associated with the outgroup. Therefore these beliefs and behaviors are bad. If I show any of these beliefs and behaviors people might think I’m bad.
Fair, but I mentioned examples where the (not necessarily outgroup in an rivalrous way but non-ingroup) outsiders are not seen as bad per se, but neutral whereas the ingroup is good.
For instance a local citizen might not be seen as “bad” for being interested in foreign stuff (if the foreign countries in question are not seen as bad, just “other”, or possibly fargroup, or even viewed positively just “not us”), but this would still take away from perception of patriotism (here, assumed as positive trait) that a similar local citizen who all else being equal totally lacks interest or curiousity in foreign stuff.
Also, men and women aren’t each other’s outgroups usually (barring some more radical views) but a man who in too interested into “girl stuff” or vice versa can be seen as bad even in situations where there is no confusion where the ingroup can’t be confused with the other group. I suppose the “outgroup stuff is bad” still works if you define “bad” relative to the person’s social role. Such as “girl stuff” is “good” for girls”, “bad for boys”, even if boys and girls are equally good. “French stuff is good for French people but bad for British people”, even if British and French folks are equally good.
Then it’s about transgression of roles I guess and policing which stuff are for what people.
The opposite is also true, I’ve known some people who seriously neglected their health because they associated exercise with not-so-bright folks. Notice how it has the same process behind it, but it’s not related to knowledge the same way your example was.
I would agree that that reversed example of the nerd and jock is also bad, and perhaps could generalize that to avoid learning skills/abilities/things, instead of just intellectual knowledge, that would benefit you because it’s associated with the other outgroup/non-ingroup members.
It’s not about knowledge.
With all the truth-seeking that goes around here it’s easy to forget that knowledge is not the ultimate value agreed upon by everyone and used as foundation for every other value. Not even close, and for good reasons.
Knowledge is not the goal behind most things we do. Yes, studying and research happen. Lots of other, not knowledge-focused activities happen aswell.
Knowledge is the byproduct of practically any activity. Whatever you do, it’s hard to avoid gaining some knowledge in the process. And that is precisely why “I’ll have more knowledge” is not a good argument to justify any activity. Picture the worst immoral action you can think of. If you perform it, you will be more knowledgeable about the world (probably in more ways that you can currently imagine).
“Reversed stupidity is not intelligence” is an idea that needed to be stated because it is counter-intuitive. We naturally tend to look for 2 matching opposite ideas that can be mapped onto “good-bad” intensity scale. Pick any pair of antonyms for simple example, or any pair of virtues and sins for example more relevant to this particular discussion. Because whatever is associated with an outgroup feels like sin and whatever is associated with ingroup feels like virtue.
But what is it about?
It’s mainly about associations.
The outgroup is bad. There are beliefs and behaviors associated with the outgroup.
Therefore these beliefs and behaviors are bad. If I show any of these beliefs and behaviors people might think I’m bad.
Yes this is flawed logic, but it’s not something people think about logically in the first place. That’s just how we normally feel.
And it’s important to remember that there can be consequences for signalling or lack of signalling.
And people tend to care about these consequences way more than they care about abstract knowledge.
But of course your examples of it being harmful are valid
The opposite is also true, I’ve known some people who seriously neglected their health because they associated exercise with not-so-bright folks. Notice how it has the same process behind it, but it’s not related to knowledge the same way your example was. And I do agree that this is not a good basis for decision-making.
It’s just it’s not always quite as simple as in these examples.
But should it be that way?
Maybe not. Maybe some people can transcend all the arbitrary norms, and avoid forming their own arbitrary norms, and find a way to interact with everyone else without signalling, and not end up practically exiled, but I’m not hopeful.
It’s something fairly difficult to do in practice and I’m yet to see examples of people succeeding at it long term.
It’s mainly about associations.
The outgroup is bad. There are beliefs and behaviors associated with the outgroup.
Therefore these beliefs and behaviors are bad. If I show any of these beliefs and behaviors people might think I’m bad.
Fair, but I mentioned examples where the (not necessarily outgroup in an rivalrous way but non-ingroup) outsiders are not seen as bad per se, but neutral whereas the ingroup is good.
For instance a local citizen might not be seen as “bad” for being interested in foreign stuff (if the foreign countries in question are not seen as bad, just “other”, or possibly fargroup, or even viewed positively just “not us”), but this would still take away from perception of patriotism (here, assumed as positive trait) that a similar local citizen who all else being equal totally lacks interest or curiousity in foreign stuff.
Also, men and women aren’t each other’s outgroups usually (barring some more radical views) but a man who in too interested into “girl stuff” or vice versa can be seen as bad even in situations where there is no confusion where the ingroup can’t be confused with the other group. I suppose the “outgroup stuff is bad” still works if you define “bad” relative to the person’s social role. Such as “girl stuff” is “good” for girls”, “bad for boys”, even if boys and girls are equally good. “French stuff is good for French people but bad for British people”, even if British and French folks are equally good.
Then it’s about transgression of roles I guess and policing which stuff are for what people.
The opposite is also true, I’ve known some people who seriously neglected their health because they associated exercise with not-so-bright folks. Notice how it has the same process behind it, but it’s not related to knowledge the same way your example was.
I would agree that that reversed example of the nerd and jock is also bad, and perhaps could generalize that to avoid learning skills/abilities/things, instead of just intellectual knowledge, that would benefit you because it’s associated with the other outgroup/non-ingroup members.