Which traditional institution is one that you can just join, and which is aimed at making all of its members become the best versions of themselves in all respects?
I think what you’re referring to is something like the Holy Grail of institutions. So if someone claims that they’ve found the global optimum of institutions, the right reaction should be one of heavy skepticism. It’s not wrong to seek the global optimum, but when someone proposes that it exists in some well-explored territory based on a somewhat simple model, the argument they should present for it would probably look something like 1) We overlooked some seemingly trivial, but serious details that would have fixed the major issues we had previously and/or 2) Iterating on this idea for a while will not result in diminishing gains for a considerable time.
What we have in society right now is a bunch of local optimums for specific needs. I think we should be prepared for the scenario in which the global optimum looks weird, and is composed of sort of a hodgepodge of various fixes and hacks and specific set-ups to meet different requirements for different people. And I know this looks ugly, but that’s typically what solutions as the output of optimization processes look like. I consider a single hierarchical institution to be a simple model, and therefore consider it unlikely that such an ambitious goal will be reached using such a solution.
So based on my above model of institutions I sort of place low probability on a solution that consists of a simple model already well-explored or without a considerable amount of details tacked-on that have been found through consistent iteration and optimization. Right now I think this experiment will have to be run with significant fail-safe mechanisms in place and outside observation so that this process can actually take place.
It’s not obvious to me that Duncan is proposing that. See my comment here. To me, it seems more like iterating and optimizing towards the minimum would get you something far from both the extremes of the libertarian egalitarian model and the one-person-in-charge-of-everything model.
I mentioned in another comment that Duncan’s role seems to be “upholding policies that were agreed upon by group consensus and running them for a limited time”; this does seem like it’s pretty distant from both rampant individualism and one-person-in-charge-of-everything to me.
I’m not sure of how to interpret your referenced comment; you seem to be talking about the “old model” being “cults”, but I don’t know what you mean by cults—I interpret a “cult” to be something like “a small group rallied around a charismatic leader with absolute authority”, but I don’t think that has been the predominant mode of social organization at any point in history?
I interpret “cult” as applicable to both small and large groups and not dependent on whether the leader has charisma or not (It could also refer to small tribes with chieftains, dictatorships, absolute monarchies, etc.). And I think in this regard it has been the predominant mode of social organization throughout history.
But after seeing Scott’s “on fourth thought” I have been more convinced that Duncan has been moving in the direction of placing limits on his power and making sure the appropriate safe-guards are in place, which has updated me away from seeing the pendulum as swinging too far in the opposite direction. I think the question remains whether or not continued updates and iterations will involve further limitations on his authority.
I think what you’re referring to is something like the Holy Grail of institutions. So if someone claims that they’ve found the global optimum of institutions, the right reaction should be one of heavy skepticism. It’s not wrong to seek the global optimum, but when someone proposes that it exists in some well-explored territory based on a somewhat simple model, the argument they should present for it would probably look something like 1) We overlooked some seemingly trivial, but serious details that would have fixed the major issues we had previously and/or 2) Iterating on this idea for a while will not result in diminishing gains for a considerable time.
What we have in society right now is a bunch of local optimums for specific needs. I think we should be prepared for the scenario in which the global optimum looks weird, and is composed of sort of a hodgepodge of various fixes and hacks and specific set-ups to meet different requirements for different people. And I know this looks ugly, but that’s typically what solutions as the output of optimization processes look like. I consider a single hierarchical institution to be a simple model, and therefore consider it unlikely that such an ambitious goal will be reached using such a solution.
So based on my above model of institutions I sort of place low probability on a solution that consists of a simple model already well-explored or without a considerable amount of details tacked-on that have been found through consistent iteration and optimization. Right now I think this experiment will have to be run with significant fail-safe mechanisms in place and outside observation so that this process can actually take place.
Isn’t starting from a simple model and then iterating and optimizing (i.e. exactly what Duncan is proposing) the only way to get to that point?
It’s not obvious to me that Duncan is proposing that. See my comment here. To me, it seems more like iterating and optimizing towards the minimum would get you something far from both the extremes of the libertarian egalitarian model and the one-person-in-charge-of-everything model.
I mentioned in another comment that Duncan’s role seems to be “upholding policies that were agreed upon by group consensus and running them for a limited time”; this does seem like it’s pretty distant from both rampant individualism and one-person-in-charge-of-everything to me.
I’m not sure of how to interpret your referenced comment; you seem to be talking about the “old model” being “cults”, but I don’t know what you mean by cults—I interpret a “cult” to be something like “a small group rallied around a charismatic leader with absolute authority”, but I don’t think that has been the predominant mode of social organization at any point in history?
I interpret “cult” as applicable to both small and large groups and not dependent on whether the leader has charisma or not (It could also refer to small tribes with chieftains, dictatorships, absolute monarchies, etc.). And I think in this regard it has been the predominant mode of social organization throughout history.
But after seeing Scott’s “on fourth thought” I have been more convinced that Duncan has been moving in the direction of placing limits on his power and making sure the appropriate safe-guards are in place, which has updated me away from seeing the pendulum as swinging too far in the opposite direction. I think the question remains whether or not continued updates and iterations will involve further limitations on his authority.