I don’t want to mirror your tone because I think your tone is both socially corrosive and epistemically unsound. I’ve at least in part been fighting you so hard because I want to publicly defend a stance that the way you’ve acted in this thread is unacceptable. Saying “I’m just blunt and skeptical” is not a complete description of the posts you’ve made; others in this thread have been blunt and skeptical without jumping to conclusions, lecturing, and being wildly overconfident that their map is accurate enough to justify throwing excrement around.
I think you’ve fallen far short of the standard of a place like LW in this thread, and I want that opinion known to anyone trying to model me.
You seem to feel that publicly shaming me is important. Should participants in your group also expect to be publicly shamed if they fall short of your standards / upset you?
With the caveat that I’m attempting to shame the way you’re going about engaging in discourse much more than I’m shaming the core of you as a person (really, you’re the one operating on the level of the fundamental attribution error within this particular thread; look in a mirror)—yes, absolutely. Part of having standards is making it socially unacceptable to fall grossly short of them.
That’s modified by things like the “saving face” section above, and the clear intention for all of us to grow and improve, me included—none of us are getting it right on the first try, and you have to scaffold growth and reward with gentle affirmation people who are willing to try to change for the better.
It’s further modified by the fact that people who don’t like these standards can simply not join, and I’ve spent now well in excess of 100 hours making my models crystal clear to those who are considering opting in (so that their decision can be fully informed).
But yeah—anybody who’s falling as far short as you absolutely deserves to be called out for it, and given a choice between “do these concrete things differently” or “lose social points.” Since you’ve repeatedly refused to stop jumping to conclusions and ignore evidence that I’m acting in good faith and not an idiot—since you’ve refused to do concrete things differently—yeah, I wholeheartedly endorse you losing social points, and people updating the way they assume interactions with you will go as a result.
You’ve even conceded to others that I’m a cut above the “other trolls” here, and have input from others that I’m trying to raise concerns in good faith.
I don’t want to mirror your tone because I think your tone is both socially corrosive and epistemically unsound. I’ve at least in part been fighting you so hard because I want to publicly defend a stance that the way you’ve acted in this thread is unacceptable. Saying “I’m just blunt and skeptical” is not a complete description of the posts you’ve made; others in this thread have been blunt and skeptical without jumping to conclusions, lecturing, and being wildly overconfident that their map is accurate enough to justify throwing excrement around.
I think you’ve fallen far short of the standard of a place like LW in this thread, and I want that opinion known to anyone trying to model me.
You seem to feel that publicly shaming me is important. Should participants in your group also expect to be publicly shamed if they fall short of your standards / upset you?
With the caveat that I’m attempting to shame the way you’re going about engaging in discourse much more than I’m shaming the core of you as a person (really, you’re the one operating on the level of the fundamental attribution error within this particular thread; look in a mirror)—yes, absolutely. Part of having standards is making it socially unacceptable to fall grossly short of them.
That’s modified by things like the “saving face” section above, and the clear intention for all of us to grow and improve, me included—none of us are getting it right on the first try, and you have to scaffold growth and reward with gentle affirmation people who are willing to try to change for the better.
It’s further modified by the fact that people who don’t like these standards can simply not join, and I’ve spent now well in excess of 100 hours making my models crystal clear to those who are considering opting in (so that their decision can be fully informed).
But yeah—anybody who’s falling as far short as you absolutely deserves to be called out for it, and given a choice between “do these concrete things differently” or “lose social points.” Since you’ve repeatedly refused to stop jumping to conclusions and ignore evidence that I’m acting in good faith and not an idiot—since you’ve refused to do concrete things differently—yeah, I wholeheartedly endorse you losing social points, and people updating the way they assume interactions with you will go as a result.
I’ve changed my tone and apologized.
You’ve continued to dismiss and ridicule me.
You’ve even conceded to others that I’m a cut above the “other trolls” here, and have input from others that I’m trying to raise concerns in good faith.
What more do you want?