Will Taylor

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Will Taylor 28 Nov 2024 11:06 UTC
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in reply to: Steven Byrnes’s comment on: Counting AGIs

Plateau: There may be unexpected development plateaus that come into effect at around human-level intelligence. These plateaus could be architecture-specific (scaling laws break down; getting past AGI requires something outside the deep learning paradigm) or fundamental to the nature of machine intelligence.

That doesn’t prevent any of those four things I mentioned: it doesn’t prevent (1) the AGIs escaping control and self-reproducing, nor (2) the code / weights leaking or getting stolen, nor (3) other companies reinventing the same thing, nor (4) the AGI company (or companies) having an ability to transform compute into profits at a wildly higher exchange rate than any other compute customer, and thus making unprecedented amounts of money off their existing models, and thus buying more and more compute to run more and more copies of their AGI

It doesn’t prevent (1) but it does make it less likely. A ‘barely general’ AGI is less likely to be able to escape control than an ASI. It doesn’t prevent (2). We acknowledge (3) in section IV: “We can also incorporate multiple firms or governments building AGI, by multiplying the initial AGI population by the number of such additional AGI projects. For example, 2x if we believe China and the US will be the only two projects, or 3x if we believe OpenAI, Anthropic, and DeepMind each achieve AGI.” We think there are likely to be a small number of companies near the frontier, so this is likely to be a modest multiplier. Re. (4), I think ryan_b made relevant points. I would expect some portion of compute to be tied up in long-term contracts. I agree that I would expect the developer of AGI to be able to increase their access to compute over time, but it’s not obvious to me how fast that would be.

Pause: Government intervention could pause frontier AI development. Such a pause could be international. It is plausible that achieving or nearly achieving an AGI system would constitute exactly the sort of catalyzing event that would inspire governments to sharply and suddenly restrict frontier AI development.

That definitely doesn’t prevent (1) or (2), and it probably doesn’t prevent (3) or (4) either depending on implementation details.

I mostly agree on this one, though again think it makes (1) less likely for the same reason. As you say, the implementation details matter for (3) and (4), and it’s not clear to me that it ‘probably’ wouldn’t prevent them. It might be that a pause would target all companies near the frontier, in which case we could see a freeze at AGI for its developer, and near AGI for competitors.

Abstention: Many frontier AI firms appear to take the risks of advanced AI seriously, and have risk management frameworks in place (see those of Google DeepMind, OpenAI, and Anthropic). Some contain what Holden Karnofsky calls if-then commitments: “If an AI model has capability X, risk mitigations Y must be in place. And, if needed, we will delay AI deployment and/or development to ensure the mitigations can be present in time.” Commitments to pause further development may kick at human-level capabilities. AGI firms might avoid recursive self-improvement to avoid existential or catastrophic risks.

That could be relevant to (1,2,4) with luck. As for (3), it might buy a few months, before Meta and the various other firms and projects that are extremely dismissive of the risks of advanced AI catch up to the front-runners.

Again, mostly agreed. I think it’s possible that the development of AGI would precipitate a wider change in attitude towards it, including at other developers. Maybe it would be exactly what is needed to make other firms take the risks seriously. Perhaps it’s more likely it would just provide a clear demonstration of a profitable path and spur further acceleration though. Again, we see (3) as a modest multiplier.

Windup: There are hard-to-reduce windup times in the production process of frontier AI models. For example, a training run for future systems may run into the hundreds of billions of dollars, consuming vast amounts of compute and taking months of processing. Other bottlenecks, like the time it takes to run ML experiments, might extend this windup period.

That doesn’t prevent any of (1,2,3,4). Again, we’re assuming the AGI already exists, and discussing how many servers will be running copies of it, and how soon. The question of training next-generation even-more-powerful AGIs is irrelevant to that question. Right?

The question of training next-generation even-more-powerful AGIs is relevant to containment, and is therefore relevant to how long a relatively stable period running a ‘first generation AGI’ might last. It doesn’t prevent (2) ad (3). It doesn’t prevent (4) either, though presumably a next-gen AGI would further increase a company’s ability in this regard.

Will Taylor 27 Nov 2024 19:49 UTC
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in reply to: Matt Goldenberg’s comment on: Counting AGIs

while this paradigm of ‘training a model that’s an agi, and then running it at inference’ is one way we get to transformative agi, i find myself thinking that probably WON’T be the first transformative AI, because my guess is that there are lots of tricks using lots of compute at inference to get not quite transformative ai to transformative ai.

Agreed that this is far from the only possibility, and we have some discussion of increasing inference time to make the final push up to generality in the bit beginning “If general intelligence is achievable by properly inferencing a model with a baseline of capability that is lower than human-level...” We did a bit more thinking around this topic which we didn’t think was quite core to the post, so Connor has written it up on his blog here: https://arcaderhetoric.substack.com/p/moravecs-sea

and i doubt that these tricks can funge against train time compute, as you seem to be assuming in your analysis.

Our method 5 is intended for this case—we’d use an appropriate ‘capabilities per token’ multiplier to account for needing extra inference time to reach human level.

Will Taylor 27 Nov 2024 19:35 UTC
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in reply to: Anders Lindström’s comment on: Counting AGIs
Our pleasure!

I’m not convinced a first generation AGI would be “super expert level in most subjects”. I think it’s more likely they’d be extremely capable in some areas but below human level in others. (This does mean the ‘drop-in worker’ comparison isn’t perfect, as presumably people would use them for the stuff they’re really good at rather than any task.) See the section which begins “As of 2024, AI systems have demonstrated extremely uneven capabilities” for more discussion of this and some relevant links. I agree on the knowledge access and communication speed, but think they’re still likely to suffer from hallucination (if they’re LLM-like) which could prove limiting for really difficult problems with lots of steps.

Will Taylor 27 Nov 2024 19:20 UTC
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in reply to: Steven Byrnes’s comment on: Counting AGIs
There are a lot of situations where that’s not an appropriate assumption, but rather the relevant question is “what’s the AGI population if most of the world’s compute is running AGIs”.
Agreed. It would be interesting to extend this to answer that question and in-between scenarios (like having access to a large chunk of the compute in China or the US + allies).
FWIW Holden Karnofsky wrote a 2022 blog post “AI Could Defeat All Of Us Combined” that mentions the following: “once the first human-level AI system is created, whoever created it could use the same computing power it took to create it in order to run several hundred million copies for about a year each.” Brief justification in his footnote 5.
Thanks for pointing us to this. It looks to be the same method as our method 3.
Yeah it’s fine to assume that there might be some period of time that (1) the AGIs don’t escape control, (2) the code doesn’t leak or get stolen, (3) nobody else reinvents the same thing, (4) Company A doesn’t have infinite capital (yet) to spend on renting cloud compute (or the contracts haven’t yet been signed or whatever). And it’s fine to be curious about how many AGIs would Company A have available during this period of time.
We think that period might be substantial, for reasons discussed in Section II.