First, your description of the process of consent is not universal; it doesn’t describe any relationship I’ve been in going all the way back to when I was a teenager. At the very least this should tell you that this series of events wasn’t acceptable because it’s “just the way humans interact.” Many men, including myself, actually talk to the women we want to have sex with, and “having lower amounts of sex” is far from an adequate reason to resort to the boundary-pushing and manipulation you describe.
Second, “the fact that you were raped doesn’t make Alex a rapist” is a patently absurd position to hold, not to mention an incredible red flag for anyone who might consider being at all vulnerable around you in the future. The mental gymnastics required are mind-boggling. It appears the case you’re making by saying “you were both naked on the beach, and I think a large fraction of men would at least try to escalate the situation” is something like “you were standing in traffic, you shouldn’t be surprised you got hit by a car”. This is textbook victim-blaming and completely ignores the perpetrator’s agency in the matter. I would say it’s akin to saying “you were eating a sandwich in public, and I think a large fraction of men are so hungry they would at least try to punch you and steal it.” If “retreat mind-state” is the defense here then I guess those retreats should probably not be happening. If I took the series of actions described in the open letter on my own fiancee I would think she would be disturbed and traumatized by the experience, to say nothing of the more ambiguous context described above.
Third and lastly; regardless of what views you may hold in private, it’s incredibly hostile behavior to make this case on a self-described assault victim’s post about the incident. The whole comments serves to demean OP’s perspective and you then condescend that “she can feel however she wants” as if you haven’t just described at length why you think she’s foolish and misguided.
Thank you for this response and for so clearly pointing out these issues. I also found this comment offensive and hostile—and do not think I could have better or more concisely articulated these points as you have or that they would have been as well-received coming from myself. I appreciate the clarity, awareness, and directness in your response.
Ah, I think you’re right, it was very unkind to post this here, and I regret it. Though I think from your reply and the downvotes that I didn’t properly articulate my view, but I don’t think that a debate would be especially useful here.
I find this comment offensive.
First, your description of the process of consent is not universal; it doesn’t describe any relationship I’ve been in going all the way back to when I was a teenager. At the very least this should tell you that this series of events wasn’t acceptable because it’s “just the way humans interact.” Many men, including myself, actually talk to the women we want to have sex with, and “having lower amounts of sex” is far from an adequate reason to resort to the boundary-pushing and manipulation you describe.
Second, “the fact that you were raped doesn’t make Alex a rapist” is a patently absurd position to hold, not to mention an incredible red flag for anyone who might consider being at all vulnerable around you in the future. The mental gymnastics required are mind-boggling. It appears the case you’re making by saying “you were both naked on the beach, and I think a large fraction of men would at least try to escalate the situation” is something like “you were standing in traffic, you shouldn’t be surprised you got hit by a car”. This is textbook victim-blaming and completely ignores the perpetrator’s agency in the matter. I would say it’s akin to saying “you were eating a sandwich in public, and I think a large fraction of men are so hungry they would at least try to punch you and steal it.” If “retreat mind-state” is the defense here then I guess those retreats should probably not be happening. If I took the series of actions described in the open letter on my own fiancee I would think she would be disturbed and traumatized by the experience, to say nothing of the more ambiguous context described above.
Third and lastly; regardless of what views you may hold in private, it’s incredibly hostile behavior to make this case on a self-described assault victim’s post about the incident. The whole comments serves to demean OP’s perspective and you then condescend that “she can feel however she wants” as if you haven’t just described at length why you think she’s foolish and misguided.
Thank you for this response and for so clearly pointing out these issues. I also found this comment offensive and hostile—and do not think I could have better or more concisely articulated these points as you have or that they would have been as well-received coming from myself. I appreciate the clarity, awareness, and directness in your response.
Ah, I think you’re right, it was very unkind to post this here, and I regret it. Though I think from your reply and the downvotes that I didn’t properly articulate my view, but I don’t think that a debate would be especially useful here.