I think there isn’t really a problem with people discussing ‘political’ subjects, because the problem isn’t politics. Really, anything that involves ‘philosophy’ and the word ‘should’ can be a potential problem, even if this is only implicit in the conversation. If you don’t want to feel angry or to have people angry at you, the solution is simple—only talk to people you already agree with.
In fact, people can happily discuss politics and philosophy all day long, and do so all the time—as long as both parties already agree with the other’s conclusions.
Now, I am assuming what you actually wanted to know was how to discuss politics with someone you don’t already agree with. In order to do that one has to be able to separate the argument the person is making from their emotional response to it. if you can’t do that, then anything that is significantly meaningful to you will be something you cannot meaningfully discuss with anyone you disagree with.
The goal of such discussions shouldn’t be to convince someone that you are right, but to find the root cause of the disagreement to begin with. It’s very important to make logical arguments and not use fallacies as arguments. When you feel strongly about a subject, this may be difficult. Also, if the other person has already made an argument for their case, you need to respond to the points they made. Otherwise you’re just talking past each other. I agree that you shouldn’t be obscure—that is a way to create a monologue, or perhaps talk with people who know whatever linguistic password you’ve set up, which may mostly be people you already agree with. I guess that works in the sense that one avoids confronting people they don’t agree with.
The truth of the matter is that if you want to discuss anything at all important with someone you disagree with, there’s going to be strong feelings involved. If someone presents a logical argument, regardless of the emotions involved, your response needs to address their argument, and not their or your emotional response. If you can’t do that, then you might try understanding your opponent’s side by choosing to read work from the most intelligent people who hold the same opinion they do. If you think those people’s arguments are worthless (not merely wrong, but unintelligent and without any logical scaffold) then you probably won’t be able to have a logical discussion of the subject with people you disagree with. And that is because if you think that, you are probably having trouble putting aside your own emotions on the subject. There is no such thing as an argument that cannot be argued using logic, or that has never been argued using logic. The question merely becomes what that logical infrastructure has been built on. Somewhere in there is the basic component that you and your equally logical countepart (who nevertheless believes the opposing viewpoint) disagree on.
Yeah. The discussions I am talking about are exploratory, people would not be expected to have strong opinions if it weren’t for pattern-matching. I’m not as much worried about fallacies all around. One problem I have is that I am more afraid of people who agree with me than people I don’t. THank you.
Are you afraid of people who agree with you because you worry some will chime in with badly supported arguments? I imagine there are few things people enjoy less than seeing someone making a bad argument with the same conclusion as theirs, regardless of the quality of their own argument. Of course, I could be misinterpreting your statement here. Obviously, you could point out that their argument is flawed.
If they are making the same argument as you, though, and the only difference is how they make it, then you cannot say their argument is flawed (since from your perspective it is not and their attitude is not relevant to the truth value of the argument). In that case you just have to accept that you won’t necessarily like everyone who holds the same position as you.
Are you worried that people may not be willing to discuss the issue at all if they feel too strongly about it? That does happen, but I think it is to be expected. Everyone has strong emotions sometimes, and one way a person might choose to deal with that is not to engage someone. That doesn’t mean that everyone will do that, and it doesn’t mean that the information on opposing viewpoints you are looking for can’t be obtained through other means. So I think it’s best not to worry about that.
I guess I’m not entirely sure what it is about strong opinions that troubles you, regardless of whether people would be expected to have them about a particular argument or not. The amount of emotion felt or expressed in an argument is not indicative of its quality. Only the logic contained therein is, and that is the only part that needs to be addressed if trying to understand other people’s points of view. Perhaps I have addressed your concern above? You can let me know if I haven’t, though.
I think there isn’t really a problem with people discussing ‘political’ subjects, because the problem isn’t politics. Really, anything that involves ‘philosophy’ and the word ‘should’ can be a potential problem, even if this is only implicit in the conversation. If you don’t want to feel angry or to have people angry at you, the solution is simple—only talk to people you already agree with.
In fact, people can happily discuss politics and philosophy all day long, and do so all the time—as long as both parties already agree with the other’s conclusions.
Now, I am assuming what you actually wanted to know was how to discuss politics with someone you don’t already agree with. In order to do that one has to be able to separate the argument the person is making from their emotional response to it. if you can’t do that, then anything that is significantly meaningful to you will be something you cannot meaningfully discuss with anyone you disagree with.
The goal of such discussions shouldn’t be to convince someone that you are right, but to find the root cause of the disagreement to begin with. It’s very important to make logical arguments and not use fallacies as arguments. When you feel strongly about a subject, this may be difficult. Also, if the other person has already made an argument for their case, you need to respond to the points they made. Otherwise you’re just talking past each other. I agree that you shouldn’t be obscure—that is a way to create a monologue, or perhaps talk with people who know whatever linguistic password you’ve set up, which may mostly be people you already agree with. I guess that works in the sense that one avoids confronting people they don’t agree with.
The truth of the matter is that if you want to discuss anything at all important with someone you disagree with, there’s going to be strong feelings involved. If someone presents a logical argument, regardless of the emotions involved, your response needs to address their argument, and not their or your emotional response. If you can’t do that, then you might try understanding your opponent’s side by choosing to read work from the most intelligent people who hold the same opinion they do. If you think those people’s arguments are worthless (not merely wrong, but unintelligent and without any logical scaffold) then you probably won’t be able to have a logical discussion of the subject with people you disagree with. And that is because if you think that, you are probably having trouble putting aside your own emotions on the subject. There is no such thing as an argument that cannot be argued using logic, or that has never been argued using logic. The question merely becomes what that logical infrastructure has been built on. Somewhere in there is the basic component that you and your equally logical countepart (who nevertheless believes the opposing viewpoint) disagree on.
Yeah. The discussions I am talking about are exploratory, people would not be expected to have strong opinions if it weren’t for pattern-matching. I’m not as much worried about fallacies all around. One problem I have is that I am more afraid of people who agree with me than people I don’t. THank you.
Are you afraid of people who agree with you because you worry some will chime in with badly supported arguments? I imagine there are few things people enjoy less than seeing someone making a bad argument with the same conclusion as theirs, regardless of the quality of their own argument. Of course, I could be misinterpreting your statement here. Obviously, you could point out that their argument is flawed.
If they are making the same argument as you, though, and the only difference is how they make it, then you cannot say their argument is flawed (since from your perspective it is not and their attitude is not relevant to the truth value of the argument). In that case you just have to accept that you won’t necessarily like everyone who holds the same position as you.
Are you worried that people may not be willing to discuss the issue at all if they feel too strongly about it? That does happen, but I think it is to be expected. Everyone has strong emotions sometimes, and one way a person might choose to deal with that is not to engage someone. That doesn’t mean that everyone will do that, and it doesn’t mean that the information on opposing viewpoints you are looking for can’t be obtained through other means. So I think it’s best not to worry about that.
I guess I’m not entirely sure what it is about strong opinions that troubles you, regardless of whether people would be expected to have them about a particular argument or not. The amount of emotion felt or expressed in an argument is not indicative of its quality. Only the logic contained therein is, and that is the only part that needs to be addressed if trying to understand other people’s points of view. Perhaps I have addressed your concern above? You can let me know if I haven’t, though.