Random idea inspired by the politics thread: Could we make a list of high quality expressions of various positions?
People who wished to better understand other views could then refer to this list for well expressed sources.
It seems like there might be some argument about who “really” understood a given point of view best, but we could resolve debates by having eg pastafarianism-mstevens for the article on pastafarianism I like best, and pastafarianism-openthreadguy for the one openthreadguy prefers.
Wow that’s amazingly good. It reminds me of how baffled i was about the degree that everyone hated Ayn Rand after reading atlas shrugged as a teenager, and I now realize the reason is that everyone thought she was arguing against things she wasn’t arguing against.
It’s a great description, I agree. Unfortunately, Atlas Shrugged is meta-ethics top-heavy on fighting the “the motive of service to others is intrinsically virtuous” windmill/strawman. So much so, that I was unable to continue reading after the first 100 pages or so, given the quoted statement seems obviously fallacious to me to begin with, yet she kept pounding on and on.
fighting the “the motive of service to others is intrinsically virtuous” windmill/strawman.
Would that it were a windmill/strawman.… but sometimes dysfunctional families teach their less-favored children to believe it, and I’d say that some nations certainly go in for it now and then.
Admittedly, this isn’t service to others in general, it’s to some specific person or organization which wants the service, and that changes the concept somewhat.
oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not an objectivist and I think Atlas Shrugged is badly written. I just get really tired of people attacking Ayn Rand for stupid reasons
By not being formally respectable, TVtropes gets an otherwise skeptical audience (western nerds) to seriously consider certain philosophical positions that they are otherwise quite hostile to.
If LW concepts (eg mindkiller, raising the sanity line, paying rent in anticipated experience) were as popular as similarly philosophical TVtropes concepts, I think SI and CFAR leadership would be thrilled.
I was thinking about it from a different angle—that sometimes lack of respectability leaves more room for conscientiousness.
It doesn’t always work that way—but so far tvtropes is a home for people who genuinely want to get the details of popular culture right. It seems odd, but it doesn’t seem to have the problems with fraud and sloppiness that science does. Is this because people care more about popular culture than science? Or is it just that if tvtropes becomes respectable, the rewards for cheating will go up?
I hadn’t thought of it that way—it’s very plausible.
But some of the fraud in science is just lost purpose. If you need a certain number of publications to advance in your job, submitting fraudulent studies seems much more rewarding. And TVtropes doesn’t have a similar issue—in part because of the lack of respectability you noted.
Random idea inspired by the politics thread: Could we make a list of high quality expressions of various positions?
People who wished to better understand other views could then refer to this list for well expressed sources.
It seems like there might be some argument about who “really” understood a given point of view best, but we could resolve debates by having eg pastafarianism-mstevens for the article on pastafarianism I like best, and pastafarianism-openthreadguy for the one openthreadguy prefers.
TVTropes has an -amazing- political and philosophical library. They have the single-best description of Objectivism I’ve ever seen, in particular.
You’re right, the tvtropes article on Objectivism is actually really good. I knew they had a lot of good non-trope content.
Wow that’s amazingly good. It reminds me of how baffled i was about the degree that everyone hated Ayn Rand after reading atlas shrugged as a teenager, and I now realize the reason is that everyone thought she was arguing against things she wasn’t arguing against.
It’s a great description, I agree. Unfortunately, Atlas Shrugged is meta-ethics top-heavy on fighting the “the motive of service to others is intrinsically virtuous” windmill/strawman. So much so, that I was unable to continue reading after the first 100 pages or so, given the quoted statement seems obviously fallacious to me to begin with, yet she kept pounding on and on.
Would that it were a windmill/strawman.… but sometimes dysfunctional families teach their less-favored children to believe it, and I’d say that some nations certainly go in for it now and then.
Admittedly, this isn’t service to others in general, it’s to some specific person or organization which wants the service, and that changes the concept somewhat.
oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not an objectivist and I think Atlas Shrugged is badly written. I just get really tired of people attacking Ayn Rand for stupid reasons
I wonder whether not being a formally respectable source is actually good for tvtropes.
By not being formally respectable, TVtropes gets an otherwise skeptical audience (western nerds) to seriously consider certain philosophical positions that they are otherwise quite hostile to.
If LW concepts (eg mindkiller, raising the sanity line, paying rent in anticipated experience) were as popular as similarly philosophical TVtropes concepts, I think SI and CFAR leadership would be thrilled.
I was thinking about it from a different angle—that sometimes lack of respectability leaves more room for conscientiousness.
It doesn’t always work that way—but so far tvtropes is a home for people who genuinely want to get the details of popular culture right. It seems odd, but it doesn’t seem to have the problems with fraud and sloppiness that science does. Is this because people care more about popular culture than science? Or is it just that if tvtropes becomes respectable, the rewards for cheating will go up?
I hadn’t thought of it that way—it’s very plausible.
But some of the fraud in science is just lost purpose. If you need a certain number of publications to advance in your job, submitting fraudulent studies seems much more rewarding. And TVtropes doesn’t have a similar issue—in part because of the lack of respectability you noted.