Multiple related problems with Alice’s behavior (if we treat this as a real conversation):
Interfering with Bob’s boundaries/autonomy, not respecting the basic background framework where he gets to choose what he does with his life/money/etc.
Jumping to conclusions about Bob, e.g., insisting that the good he’s been doing is just for “warm fuzzies”, or that Bob is lying
Repeatedly shifting her motive for being in the conversation / her claim about the purpose of the conversation (e.g., from trying to help Bob act on his values, to “if you’re lying then it’s my business”, to what sorts of people should be accepted in the rationalist community)
Cutting off conversational threads once Bob starts engaging with them to jump to new threads, in ways that are disorienting and let her stay on the attack, and don’t leave Bob space to engage with the things that have already come up
These aren’t merely impolite, they’re bad things to do, especially when combined and repeated in rapid succession. It seems like an assault on Bob’s ability to orient & think for himself about himself.
I don’t think anyone would dispute that Alice is being extremely rude! Indeed she is deliberately written that way (though I think people aren’t reading it quite the way I wrote it because I intended them to be housemates or close friends, so Alice would legitimately know some amount about Bob’s goals and values.)
I think a real conversation involving a real Bob would definitely involve lots more thoughtful pauses that gave him time to think. Luckily it’s not a real conversation, just a blog post trying to stay within a reasonable word limit. :(
Alice is not my voice; this is supposed to inspire questions, not convince people of a point. For instance: is there a way to achieve what Alice wants to achieve, while being polite and not an asshole? Do you think the needs she expresses can be met without hurting Bob?
Multiple related problems with Alice’s behavior (if we treat this as a real conversation):
Interfering with Bob’s boundaries/autonomy, not respecting the basic background framework where he gets to choose what he does with his life/money/etc.
Jumping to conclusions about Bob, e.g., insisting that the good he’s been doing is just for “warm fuzzies”, or that Bob is lying
Repeatedly shifting her motive for being in the conversation / her claim about the purpose of the conversation (e.g., from trying to help Bob act on his values, to “if you’re lying then it’s my business”, to what sorts of people should be accepted in the rationalist community)
Cutting off conversational threads once Bob starts engaging with them to jump to new threads, in ways that are disorienting and let her stay on the attack, and don’t leave Bob space to engage with the things that have already come up
These aren’t merely impolite, they’re bad things to do, especially when combined and repeated in rapid succession. It seems like an assault on Bob’s ability to orient & think for himself about himself.
Yes, but this isn’t about Alice.
I don’t think anyone would dispute that Alice is being extremely rude! Indeed she is deliberately written that way (though I think people aren’t reading it quite the way I wrote it because I intended them to be housemates or close friends, so Alice would legitimately know some amount about Bob’s goals and values.)
I think a real conversation involving a real Bob would definitely involve lots more thoughtful pauses that gave him time to think. Luckily it’s not a real conversation, just a blog post trying to stay within a reasonable word limit. :(
Alice is not my voice; this is supposed to inspire questions, not convince people of a point. For instance: is there a way to achieve what Alice wants to achieve, while being polite and not an asshole? Do you think the needs she expresses can be met without hurting Bob?