I would merely suggest, qualitative assignments aside, that it is enough to deny nihilistic mind states that can occur as one possible result of abandoning cached selves.
I am curious if there is a link or further explanation you can provide to help me understand your objections and why you have them more easily. I’m not interested in defending Descartes or his body of work but his is one of the earliest and better known accounts I have encountered (being relatively not-well-read) of that particular strain of thought that was itself an important part of my formative years. Care to provide?
I perhaps should clarify that I am impressed with Descartes’ work relative to his cultural context. But right now he is a tad behind the times. When we consider Tegmark Multiverses, simulations by hostile entities, counterfactuals and mathemetical analysis of parts of mindspace without actually simulating them, “You think therefore you are” becomes downright misleading.
I perhaps should clarify that I am impressed with Descartes’ work relative to his cultural context.
Uh...what? Descartes’ cogito ergo sum is a paraphrase of Saint Augustine’s argument in De Civitate Dei (published in the Early Middle Ages). Hell, Aristotle makes almost the same argument in the Nicomachean Ethics.
Uh...what? Descartes’ cogito ergo sum is a paraphrase of Saint Augustine’s argument in De Civitate Dei (published in the Early Middle Ages). Hell, Aristotle makes almost the same argument in the Nicomachean Ethics.
Are you suggesting that Descartes’ wasn’t even particularly impressive in his own time? I’d be willing to take the word of others on that because I certainly have no interest in spending time rummaging through obsolete philosophical writings to more precisely calculate situation-dependent merit.
Are you suggesting that Descartes’ wasn’t even particularly impressive in his own time?
No, not at all. His work in math and physics was very impressive for his time. I am merely pointing out that paraphrasing a thousand year old argument (which he was almost certainly introduced to during his scholastic training) isn’t a good example of his impressiveness (I’m guessing a majority of his classmates could have done the same).
Not so much “Err” as exactly the point. Exposure to (some of) what Descartes has said regarding thinking with such entities around was what prompted me to include that example when listing times when related, cached, Descartes thoughts are just going to be misleading.
Descartes’ argument is valid. Those are only counterexamples if you confuse yourself about the meaning of existence. In every case, the possible thinking beings (and their thoughts) either exist or they don’t, and the argument remains valid.
Depending on how the terms are resolved and which additional premises the definition makes necessary the argument resolves to somewhere between tautological and circular. It is vaguely helpful to counter a particular kind of insanity but not much more.
Those are only counterexamples if you confuse yourself about the meaning of existence. In every case, the possible thinking beings (and their thoughts) either exist or they don’t, and the argument remains valid.
They aren’t presented as counterexamples. Merely cases where the line of reasoning and the baggage that comes with it is more likely to detrimental than useful.
As wedrifid appeared to intone in the original reply, the actually discovered “there is cognitive activity present” from the given link is the key knowledge of pertinence to open the exploration of what is self.
Thanks for the further context.
I was originally impressed (and continue to be) by diegocaleiro’s open self presentation (awesome!) and hoped to merely provide, in its greatest hope, a possible sense of dependable enough structure for accelerated progression beyond pitfalls that I had previously slowed within.
While the analytical ideation is pleasant, relevant, and useful, the emotive or experiential consequences seem relevant and vital as catalyst that can either grow or inhibit the evolution we are attempting to partake in for the artifact of sentience. We can chose our preferential modes or aspects but it does not deny that our persons are more broad or that each has strengths to provide and weaknesses to avoid.
I would merely suggest, qualitative assignments aside, that it is enough to deny nihilistic mind states that can occur as one possible result of abandoning cached selves.
I am curious if there is a link or further explanation you can provide to help me understand your objections and why you have them more easily. I’m not interested in defending Descartes or his body of work but his is one of the earliest and better known accounts I have encountered (being relatively not-well-read) of that particular strain of thought that was itself an important part of my formative years. Care to provide?
I perhaps should clarify that I am impressed with Descartes’ work relative to his cultural context. But right now he is a tad behind the times. When we consider Tegmark Multiverses, simulations by hostile entities, counterfactuals and mathemetical analysis of parts of mindspace without actually simulating them, “You think therefore you are” becomes downright misleading.
Uh...what? Descartes’ cogito ergo sum is a paraphrase of Saint Augustine’s argument in De Civitate Dei (published in the Early Middle Ages). Hell, Aristotle makes almost the same argument in the Nicomachean Ethics.
Are you suggesting that Descartes’ wasn’t even particularly impressive in his own time? I’d be willing to take the word of others on that because I certainly have no interest in spending time rummaging through obsolete philosophical writings to more precisely calculate situation-dependent merit.
No, not at all. His work in math and physics was very impressive for his time. I am merely pointing out that paraphrasing a thousand year old argument (which he was almost certainly introduced to during his scholastic training) isn’t a good example of his impressiveness (I’m guessing a majority of his classmates could have done the same).
Er...
Not so much “Err” as exactly the point. Exposure to (some of) what Descartes has said regarding thinking with such entities around was what prompted me to include that example when listing times when related, cached, Descartes thoughts are just going to be misleading.
Descartes’ argument is valid. Those are only counterexamples if you confuse yourself about the meaning of existence. In every case, the possible thinking beings (and their thoughts) either exist or they don’t, and the argument remains valid.
Depending on how the terms are resolved and which additional premises the definition makes necessary the argument resolves to somewhere between tautological and circular. It is vaguely helpful to counter a particular kind of insanity but not much more.
They aren’t presented as counterexamples. Merely cases where the line of reasoning and the baggage that comes with it is more likely to detrimental than useful.
As wedrifid appeared to intone in the original reply, the actually discovered “there is cognitive activity present” from the given link is the key knowledge of pertinence to open the exploration of what is self.
Thanks for the further context.
I was originally impressed (and continue to be) by diegocaleiro’s open self presentation (awesome!) and hoped to merely provide, in its greatest hope, a possible sense of dependable enough structure for accelerated progression beyond pitfalls that I had previously slowed within.
While the analytical ideation is pleasant, relevant, and useful, the emotive or experiential consequences seem relevant and vital as catalyst that can either grow or inhibit the evolution we are attempting to partake in for the artifact of sentience. We can chose our preferential modes or aspects but it does not deny that our persons are more broad or that each has strengths to provide and weaknesses to avoid.