1,2. [this point edited] I do think the neurotoxicity has been shown in animal studies; not sure how to assess comparability of scales to humans though—see this comment. I agree lack of follow up / re-analysis is kinda sketch, but the study area seems to be generally neglected? I think FDA regulations hit soon after the study, which would limit options for replications, but maybe some retrospective analysis would have been possible in the period where manufacturers were struggling to remove Al from IV fluids.
345. I think the hypothesis is, yes, the aluminum sits in muscle at first and doesn’t rush directly into the blood. I can’t judge it myself, but this paper has lots of thoughts about the rabbit study and ways it could be misleading, and perhaps-too-complicated-but-heck-if-I-know theories about the chemistry.
6. very interesting, this looks like a strong argument I hadn’t considered. thanks for bringing this up! I’m glad they don’t find a correlation in this study. Blood / cord aluminum may be a relatively variable/fleeting thing, though; if this were averaged over gestation time I’d find it quite convincing. Not sure how much it would change in these women day-to-day, and whether we should think a reasonable signal is findable?
7. The child is growing about linearly and getting more vaccines / aluminum load about linearly. blood vol is proportional to body mass. net result, everything looks kinda constant per blood unit, if we didn’t add more then Al per blood unit should drop over time.
Neurotoxicity where blood levels reach 500ug/L and cause clear problems with brain function has been shown. But we don’t see any effects on animals at 10-20ug/L. The window for studies, however, isn’t closed! We can go back and use past records. Data like which IV nutritional formula is used and infant/adult brain function are easy to collect, even decades after. This is why I am so suspicious about the lack of replications.
I understand that aluminum may be released into the blood over time. However, the only way this can cause brain problems is by raising blood aluminum levels. We do not see an increase in blood aluminum levels. We don’t even see significant differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated children in the US from the hair/blood analysis paper! That’s enough for me to call it case closed until new information comes out.
It’s entirely possible that 10-20 ug/L is bad for children, before and after birth. But removing AL from vaccines would barely move the needle.
I am not sure it’s accurate to say that chronically increased blood levels of aluminum is the only way to cause brain problems. The reviews I linked in my other comment suggest that aluminum can affect brain function by:
Being carried to the brain by immune cell endocytosis.
Disrupting immune cell cross-talk with the CNS.
Rapidly crossing the incompletely developed neonate blood brain barrier before being cleared more slowly by incompletely developed neonate kidneys. Remember that the aluminum clearance data is from healthy adult males.
”there are numerous reports of neurotoxic effects in mice and rats, confirmed by coherent neurobiological alterations, for oral doses of Al much < 26 mg/kg/d: 6 mg/kg/d reported in 1993 [86], 5.6 mg/kg/ d reported in 2008 and 2009 [87,88], 10 mg/kg/d reported in 2016 [89], 3.4 mg/kg/d reported in 2016 and 2017 [90,91], and even 1.5 mg/kg/d reported in 2017 [92].”
What blood levels would you think this maps to? Or do you think these studies are bunk?
The study they were citing was a typically underpowered mouse study with p-hacked groups. Why did they choose to run 2 groups, each with their own controls, on the same tests? The only significant behavioral difference between the groups was that controls performed better on the memory test.
But 1.5 mg/kg and 8.3 mg/kg are normal human-level AL intakes! And look at those error bars! Also, they ran their analysis completely wrong. This null hypothesis you’re supposed to be testing against is “there is no difference in exploration time (c-a) between each groups”. Instead, they were testing against “there is no difference in exploration time between a and c”. That is, their null hypothesis was that their mice had no memory, they found that their control group definitely did have memory, and concluded that AL had an effect… But then they used the wrong control group? Everything in this study is wrong and the authors and reviewers should feel bad.
Let me reiterate that. THEIR ONLY STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT RESULT WAS THAT CONTROL MICE HAD FUNCTIONAL MEMORY. THE ERROR BARS ON TEST GROUP MICE WERE SO HIGH YOU CAN’T TELL EITHER WAY. THEY DID THEIR ANALYSIS WRONG AND THEIR CONCLUSIONS SHOULD BE DISCARDED. So yeah, it’s completely bunk.
Just noting that in the hair/blood analysis paper there were no unvaccinated children, so no useful comparison could be made from that paper alone—I complained about this in the main post body.
Also, most of these kids were probably arriving at the lowest point in their Al cycle, when they’re right about to get more shots? It says “We obtained data for this cross-sectional study from a cohort of healthy infants presenting to an urban, primary care center for well child care.”
They had aluminum levels median ~15 ug / L and a much higher mean with some large positive outlier samples, which the study then excluded. I don’t see this study as evidence against vaccines causing increase in blood aluminum levels
1,2. [this point edited] I do think the neurotoxicity has been shown in animal studies; not sure how to assess comparability of scales to humans though—see this comment. I agree lack of follow up / re-analysis is kinda sketch, but the study area seems to be generally neglected? I think FDA regulations hit soon after the study, which would limit options for replications, but maybe some retrospective analysis would have been possible in the period where manufacturers were struggling to remove Al from IV fluids.
345. I think the hypothesis is, yes, the aluminum sits in muscle at first and doesn’t rush directly into the blood. I can’t judge it myself, but this paper has lots of thoughts about the rabbit study and ways it could be misleading, and perhaps-too-complicated-but-heck-if-I-know theories about the chemistry.
6. very interesting, this looks like a strong argument I hadn’t considered. thanks for bringing this up! I’m glad they don’t find a correlation in this study. Blood / cord aluminum may be a relatively variable/fleeting thing, though; if this were averaged over gestation time I’d find it quite convincing. Not sure how much it would change in these women day-to-day, and whether we should think a reasonable signal is findable?
7. The child is growing about linearly and getting more vaccines / aluminum load about linearly. blood vol is proportional to body mass. net result, everything looks kinda constant per blood unit, if we didn’t add more then Al per blood unit should drop over time.
Neurotoxicity where blood levels reach 500ug/L and cause clear problems with brain function has been shown. But we don’t see any effects on animals at 10-20ug/L. The window for studies, however, isn’t closed! We can go back and use past records. Data like which IV nutritional formula is used and infant/adult brain function are easy to collect, even decades after. This is why I am so suspicious about the lack of replications.
I understand that aluminum may be released into the blood over time. However, the only way this can cause brain problems is by raising blood aluminum levels. We do not see an increase in blood aluminum levels. We don’t even see significant differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated children in the US from the hair/blood analysis paper! That’s enough for me to call it case closed until new information comes out.
It’s entirely possible that 10-20 ug/L is bad for children, before and after birth. But removing AL from vaccines would barely move the needle.
I am not sure it’s accurate to say that chronically increased blood levels of aluminum is the only way to cause brain problems. The reviews I linked in my other comment suggest that aluminum can affect brain function by:
Being carried to the brain by immune cell endocytosis.
Disrupting immune cell cross-talk with the CNS.
Rapidly crossing the incompletely developed neonate blood brain barrier before being cleared more slowly by incompletely developed neonate kidneys. Remember that the aluminum clearance data is from healthy adult males.
If 10-20 ug/L would mean a loss of 1-2 points of IQ it’s unlikely that the animal studies were strong enough powered to pick up such an effect.
If the aluminium goes into the brain that would mean you wouldn’t see it in the blood or hair.
If you want to make a statement about it not going to the brain you either have to account where it went or look in the brain.
For animal studies at lower ranges of Al exposure:
This source says:
”there are numerous reports of neurotoxic effects in mice and rats, confirmed by coherent neurobiological alterations, for oral doses of Al much < 26 mg/kg/d: 6 mg/kg/d reported in 1993 [86], 5.6 mg/kg/ d reported in 2008 and 2009 [87,88], 10 mg/kg/d reported in 2016 [89], 3.4 mg/kg/d reported in 2016 and 2017 [90,91], and even 1.5 mg/kg/d reported in 2017 [92].”
What blood levels would you think this maps to?
Or do you think these studies are bunk?
https://sci-hub.ru/10.1007/s12640-016-9656-y
The study they were citing was a typically underpowered mouse study with p-hacked groups. Why did they choose to run 2 groups, each with their own controls, on the same tests? The only significant behavioral difference between the groups was that controls performed better on the memory test.
But 1.5 mg/kg and 8.3 mg/kg are normal human-level AL intakes! And look at those error bars! Also, they ran their analysis completely wrong. This null hypothesis you’re supposed to be testing against is “there is no difference in exploration time (c-a) between each groups”. Instead, they were testing against “there is no difference in exploration time between a and c”. That is, their null hypothesis was that their mice had no memory, they found that their control group definitely did have memory, and concluded that AL had an effect… But then they used the wrong control group? Everything in this study is wrong and the authors and reviewers should feel bad.
Let me reiterate that. THEIR ONLY STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT RESULT WAS THAT CONTROL MICE HAD FUNCTIONAL MEMORY. THE ERROR BARS ON TEST GROUP MICE WERE SO HIGH YOU CAN’T TELL EITHER WAY. THEY DID THEIR ANALYSIS WRONG AND THEIR CONCLUSIONS SHOULD BE DISCARDED. So yeah, it’s completely bunk.
Just noting that in the hair/blood analysis paper there were no unvaccinated children, so no useful comparison could be made from that paper alone—I complained about this in the main post body.
Also, most of these kids were probably arriving at the lowest point in their Al cycle, when they’re right about to get more shots? It says “We obtained data for this cross-sectional study from a cohort of healthy infants presenting to an urban, primary care center for well child care.”
They had aluminum levels median ~15 ug / L and a much higher mean with some large positive outlier samples, which the study then excluded. I don’t see this study as evidence against vaccines causing increase in blood aluminum levels