This is such a thoughtful answer. Thanks for engaging with the question, I’ve also been thinking about this lately myself.
For me I also think I’m not going to have children. I’ve been engaging more with why I want them lately (I’m dreaming of growing old with a close-knit family with 3-7 kids), but I don’t think the state of the world is giving me that choice. Concretely, I’ve had enough experiences of trying to share responsibility for important problems with other people who can’t take them because of kids.
In general it’s hard to share important responsibilities, because there’s very few that I trust to step up to it, but also because many of the people keep explaining that they can’t take these responsibilities on (especially quickly), as they’ve made commitments to their spouses and children. There are just too many things I need to be responsible at this point in history, that this is a commitment I can’t make.
Perhaps the world will become increasingly stable as I grow older, meaning I can make these sorts of commitments, but I mostly expect the world to become more chaotic (though I’d like LW to become a more stable and valuable institution over the decades, so there’s that).
I do think about having a relationship like I know some people have, like Elon Musk, where he has ~6 kids but in many important ways is not responsible for them (e.g. doesn’t live with them). I think my parents might think I’m a monster for doing it, which pushes me against, but if I found the right partner who wanted something like that, I think I’d like it. (I think this is not a fair ask to make of people in general, but it’s a big world and for some people I’m sure this would be strongly positive sum.)
I think there’s a judo move here that I don’t want to skip over, where first I should actually engage with what it is that’s there to be wanted about having kids, and then engage with the reasons why I won’t choose that, as opposed to going along with what I feel I’m naturally going along (i.e. not having them). I don’t want to regret not having seriously considered it, or to realise I was lying to myself about not wanting, that doesn’t sound healthy. So I’ve been doing that more lately.
This is a good thoughtful response as well! I think the calculus is actually significantly different for men vs women, where the Elon Musk option is unlikely for men, but feels kind of unimaginable for women. Obviously not every single parent relationship in the world is gendered this way, but honestly I’d guess like 98% are, maybe more. And on inside view, you know I’d totally end up the mother figure in any relationship. On the other hand, I’d be fine living in a group house with someone who had a kid—indicating to me that it’s not participating inraising kids that I don’t want, but being responsible for raising kids. (Also the pregnancy thing, as I mentioned. Shudder.)
So yeah, if I were a man in a non-precipice world I think I could easily want kids. But that’s not the situation, so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Being in a house with kids also sounds like something that would get me a bunch of things I want. I guess people in close knit communities used to have more availability for this—you could go help out at the nearby school, for example. My Dad lives in a pretty healthy community in The Netherlands, and for many years ran a weekly Chess club for the kids there, which had like 30-40 kids come every week. He works in the Chess industry and would help the strongest kids go to tournaments and more.
I notice there are several alternatives here that sound like things I’d find meaningful that don’t involve having kids myself. I’ll think more on them...
This is such a thoughtful answer. Thanks for engaging with the question, I’ve also been thinking about this lately myself.
For me I also think I’m not going to have children. I’ve been engaging more with why I want them lately (I’m dreaming of growing old with a close-knit family with 3-7 kids), but I don’t think the state of the world is giving me that choice. Concretely, I’ve had enough experiences of trying to share responsibility for important problems with other people who can’t take them because of kids.
In general it’s hard to share important responsibilities, because there’s very few that I trust to step up to it, but also because many of the people keep explaining that they can’t take these responsibilities on (especially quickly), as they’ve made commitments to their spouses and children. There are just too many things I need to be responsible at this point in history, that this is a commitment I can’t make.
Perhaps the world will become increasingly stable as I grow older, meaning I can make these sorts of commitments, but I mostly expect the world to become more chaotic (though I’d like LW to become a more stable and valuable institution over the decades, so there’s that).
I do think about having a relationship like I know some people have, like Elon Musk, where he has ~6 kids but in many important ways is not responsible for them (e.g. doesn’t live with them). I think my parents might think I’m a monster for doing it, which pushes me against, but if I found the right partner who wanted something like that, I think I’d like it. (I think this is not a fair ask to make of people in general, but it’s a big world and for some people I’m sure this would be strongly positive sum.)
I think there’s a judo move here that I don’t want to skip over, where first I should actually engage with what it is that’s there to be wanted about having kids, and then engage with the reasons why I won’t choose that, as opposed to going along with what I feel I’m naturally going along (i.e. not having them). I don’t want to regret not having seriously considered it, or to realise I was lying to myself about not wanting, that doesn’t sound healthy. So I’ve been doing that more lately.
This is a good thoughtful response as well! I think the calculus is actually significantly different for men vs women, where the Elon Musk option is unlikely for men, but feels kind of unimaginable for women. Obviously not every single parent relationship in the world is gendered this way, but honestly I’d guess like 98% are, maybe more. And on inside view, you know I’d totally end up the mother figure in any relationship. On the other hand, I’d be fine living in a group house with someone who had a kid—indicating to me that it’s not participating in raising kids that I don’t want, but being responsible for raising kids. (Also the pregnancy thing, as I mentioned. Shudder.)
So yeah, if I were a man in a non-precipice world I think I could easily want kids. But that’s not the situation, so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah, agree on the men/women differences.
Being in a house with kids also sounds like something that would get me a bunch of things I want. I guess people in close knit communities used to have more availability for this—you could go help out at the nearby school, for example. My Dad lives in a pretty healthy community in The Netherlands, and for many years ran a weekly Chess club for the kids there, which had like 30-40 kids come every week. He works in the Chess industry and would help the strongest kids go to tournaments and more.
I notice there are several alternatives here that sound like things I’d find meaningful that don’t involve having kids myself. I’ll think more on them...