I largely agree with the post. Saying Robertson’s thought experiment was off limits and he was fantasising about beheading and raping atheists is silly. I think many people’s reaction was explained by their being frustrated with his faulty assumption that all atheists are necessarily (implicitly or explicitly) nihilists of the sort who’d say there’s nothing wrong with murder.
One amendment I’d make to the post is that many error theorists and non-cognitivists wouldn’t be on board with what the murderer is saying in the thought experiment. For example, they could be quasi-realists. I say this as someone who personally leans moral realist.
He’s not fantasizing about he himself beheading atheists. What he’s fantasizing about is subtly different: he’s fantasizing about the idea that atheists will get beheaded because of their own atheism rebounding on them, so it’s their own fault.
Robertson doesn’t strike me as a particularly scholarly thinker, but even less well-thought religious folk have confronted the problems of evil and tragedy. The story of Job is a common subject of discussion in churches and among religious folk, and it’s always framed as horrible things happened to Job because of his belief in a deity and because of the deity. Christians aren’t unused to the concept of bad things happened because of their faith rebounding on them.
He’s fantasizing about the outside world giving ‘indisputable proof’ of external morality. The religious folk have /countless/ scenarios like this, and the better-spoken ones will explicitly call them tests of ‘relative’ morality.
There’s a pretty easy response to Robertson’s thought experiment even within that framing—to borrow from Babylon 5′s Marcus Cole, “wouldn’t it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?”—but the state of promoted discussion by atheists is so terrible that Robertson’s probably not aware of it.
wouldn’t it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?
Many religious traditions believe just this. Bad things are punishments from God. When bad things (with no human cause) happen to someone, that proves they sinned.
“wouldn’t it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?”
I don’t see what this quote is supposed to mean, besides a deep-wisdomy way of saying that you don’t want to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
Some people, when something bad happens to someone else, say things like “well, they must have done something bad to deserve that happening to them”. This quote means that people like that should STFU. For example, my parents were good people who totally did NOT deserve to die of cancer.
I don’t see what this quote is supposed to mean, besides a deep-wisdomy way of saying that you don’t want to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
Ah, it’s not really about locus of control: the context is destitute people falling ill due to contaminated food. It’s more about situations where bad things happen that are not readily controlled or avoided due to lack of knowledge or circumstance.
The point of the quote is that it is no more comforting to be Job, and to have your family killed and everything taken from you because it is a deity’s plan, than it is to be a moral nihilist who has your family killed and everything taken from you because the universe is a cold and unforgiving place. To many people, Job’s deal is less desirable, because railing against the fundamental unfairness of the universe is a lot more socially condoned where a lot of deities are lightning-bolt-happy.
Ah, it’s not really about locus of control: the context is destitute people falling ill due to contaminated food. It’s more about situations where bad things happen that are not readily controlled or avoided due to lack of knowledge or circumstance.
So that’s an argument for why it would be better if life were fair.
The difference is between taking responsibility for your actions and your outcomes.
If you get mugged on the street, are you responsible because of bad karma or being insufficiently trained in martial arts or do you simply have bad luck?
I largely agree with the post. Saying Robertson’s thought experiment was off limits and he was fantasising about beheading and raping atheists is silly. I think many people’s reaction was explained by their being frustrated with his faulty assumption that all atheists are necessarily (implicitly or explicitly) nihilists of the sort who’d say there’s nothing wrong with murder.
One amendment I’d make to the post is that many error theorists and non-cognitivists wouldn’t be on board with what the murderer is saying in the thought experiment. For example, they could be quasi-realists. I say this as someone who personally leans moral realist.
He’s not fantasizing about he himself beheading atheists. What he’s fantasizing about is subtly different: he’s fantasizing about the idea that atheists will get beheaded because of their own atheism rebounding on them, so it’s their own fault.
Robertson doesn’t strike me as a particularly scholarly thinker, but even less well-thought religious folk have confronted the problems of evil and tragedy. The story of Job is a common subject of discussion in churches and among religious folk, and it’s always framed as horrible things happened to Job because of his belief in a deity and because of the deity. Christians aren’t unused to the concept of bad things happened because of their faith rebounding on them.
He’s fantasizing about the outside world giving ‘indisputable proof’ of external morality. The religious folk have /countless/ scenarios like this, and the better-spoken ones will explicitly call them tests of ‘relative’ morality.
There’s a pretty easy response to Robertson’s thought experiment even within that framing—to borrow from Babylon 5′s Marcus Cole, “wouldn’t it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?”—but the state of promoted discussion by atheists is so terrible that Robertson’s probably not aware of it.
Many religious traditions believe just this. Bad things are punishments from God. When bad things (with no human cause) happen to someone, that proves they sinned.
I don’t see what this quote is supposed to mean, besides a deep-wisdomy way of saying that you don’t want to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
Some people, when something bad happens to someone else, say things like “well, they must have done something bad to deserve that happening to them”. This quote means that people like that should STFU. For example, my parents were good people who totally did NOT deserve to die of cancer.
Ah, it’s not really about locus of control: the context is destitute people falling ill due to contaminated food. It’s more about situations where bad things happen that are not readily controlled or avoided due to lack of knowledge or circumstance.
The point of the quote is that it is no more comforting to be Job, and to have your family killed and everything taken from you because it is a deity’s plan, than it is to be a moral nihilist who has your family killed and everything taken from you because the universe is a cold and unforgiving place. To many people, Job’s deal is less desirable, because railing against the fundamental unfairness of the universe is a lot more socially condoned where a lot of deities are lightning-bolt-happy.
So that’s an argument for why it would be better if life were fair.
If the experienced observations were to look different. Stuck with the universe we’ve got, though...
The difference is between taking responsibility for your actions and your outcomes.
If you get mugged on the street, are you responsible because of bad karma or being insufficiently trained in martial arts or do you simply have bad luck?