I am one of those people that have an overactive sensitivity for fairness, and at times go to extremes to make sure justice “happens”, and can’t help but point out double standards and (real or perceived) hypocrisy. However… I’ll be honest—this is generally something that decreases the net quality of my life. Not in the least because injustice (in the broad sense) is omnipresent and highly prevalent everywhere. When that isn’t the problem, the next issue that rears its head repeatedly is how to define justice in the first place.
You mention the case of getting too much change back… this is far from a clear cut case. One could defend the position that it is part of the clerks required diligence to ensure he gives you the correct amount of change, and that if he does not, it is for him to deal with. It seems defensible to claim that the chance of him “learning his lesson” may be better if you do not tell him of the mistake. (This might be different if the option “tell about mistake, keep the money” would be available, but it kind of isn’t, for a quite interesting set of reasons). I suspect that, all things considered, going back to the clerk to return the excess change is probably indeed the most correct thing to do, but certainly not unambiguously so.
To introduce another interesting shade of grey.. You go out to buy some cherries, and it is possible to select the fruits yourself. Do you think it’s OK to manually select the best ones from the stash (assuming ones’ hands are meant to be the ‘tools’ for selection) - it is very hard to adequately define what “just” in this case is—it is hard to defend the position that you must share in the crappy fruits, but equally you might believe it is unfair to other clients to pick out the nicest ones. But then again, first come, first serve isn’t exactly controversial either...
I strongly believe in justice and fairness. In the accurate and equitable assignation of responsibility, and admitting ones’ share. Yet the temptation not to do it will always remain, mostly because it very often simply costs less. And at times I do wonder if my ideation of justice basically translates into being the sucker ;)
I am not one of those people—I care about justice from a contract (including social and implied contract) standpoint, and from a net-satisfaction standpoint (I’m not Utilitarian, but I’m sympathetic to the intent and my personal utility function is mostly-compatible). I don’t believe it’s generally desirable to trade very much efficiency for justice (though some amount is necessary to maintain the functioning necessary for meeting more people’s needs, and to increase overall life-satisfaction).
For cherry-picking, I think first-come-first-served is better than many other solutions, in that people who get more value from better fruit (mixed with those who have more flexibility/power) can pick what they’re willing to give up to arrive earlier. I think price discrimination (better cherries cost more) is pretty efficient as well, as it’s a signal to what quality of fruit the supply chain should pursue as well. Depending on grading and transaction costs (and customer acceptability), it can be more just AND efficient enough to go the other way: remove choice, sell cherries in opaque bags with a mix of quality. The efficiency tradeoff is an empirical decision—anyone can try something else and see how it works.
Fortunately (or un-), Moloch doesn’t care much about Justice, so in very competitive endeavors, efficiency tends to win.
Do you think it’s OK to manually select the best ones from the stash (assuming ones’ hands are meant to be the ‘tools’ for selection)
It’s kind of standard practice in grocery stores to discount items that are of lower quality, or nearer to the end of their shelf life, no? In other words: whatever the price is, the store owner has already priced in the fact that the best quality will sell first, which at least partly compensates latecomers. And at least in the modern first world, there is generally enough produce that everyone who wants some can get good quality at market price.
Well yes there are methods of preventing the situation as described (that one can manually pick from a stash where various ‘qualities’ are intermixed) but that changes the circumstances; my example was specifically for that set of particulars. I guess that like most examples where significant differences in assessment arise, they all boil down to where you set the “slider” for taking responsibility for the situation one creates (eg. the seller allowing manual selection) and the degree to which one is willing, able or justified to “exploit” such a situation to ones’ benefit.
I think the cherry-picking example is an especially good one because it touches on a number of important issues, and each of those issues in itself is an unsettled question. Is it “just” to strive for an equitable division of fruit qualities among all (future) buyers? Will those buyers feel the same way about your idea of justice? Is it reasonable to negatively judge those who don’t “comply” with such a conception? Are such people immoral? Are they not in fact simply more assertive of what they see as their right to choose? None of these can be easily settled....
I am one of those people that have an overactive sensitivity for fairness, and at times go to extremes to make sure justice “happens”, and can’t help but point out double standards and (real or perceived) hypocrisy. However… I’ll be honest—this is generally something that decreases the net quality of my life. Not in the least because injustice (in the broad sense) is omnipresent and highly prevalent everywhere. When that isn’t the problem, the next issue that rears its head repeatedly is how to define justice in the first place.
You mention the case of getting too much change back… this is far from a clear cut case. One could defend the position that it is part of the clerks required diligence to ensure he gives you the correct amount of change, and that if he does not, it is for him to deal with. It seems defensible to claim that the chance of him “learning his lesson” may be better if you do not tell him of the mistake. (This might be different if the option “tell about mistake, keep the money” would be available, but it kind of isn’t, for a quite interesting set of reasons). I suspect that, all things considered, going back to the clerk to return the excess change is probably indeed the most correct thing to do, but certainly not unambiguously so.
To introduce another interesting shade of grey.. You go out to buy some cherries, and it is possible to select the fruits yourself. Do you think it’s OK to manually select the best ones from the stash (assuming ones’ hands are meant to be the ‘tools’ for selection) - it is very hard to adequately define what “just” in this case is—it is hard to defend the position that you must share in the crappy fruits, but equally you might believe it is unfair to other clients to pick out the nicest ones. But then again, first come, first serve isn’t exactly controversial either...
I strongly believe in justice and fairness. In the accurate and equitable assignation of responsibility, and admitting ones’ share. Yet the temptation not to do it will always remain, mostly because it very often simply costs less. And at times I do wonder if my ideation of justice basically translates into being the sucker ;)
I am not one of those people—I care about justice from a contract (including social and implied contract) standpoint, and from a net-satisfaction standpoint (I’m not Utilitarian, but I’m sympathetic to the intent and my personal utility function is mostly-compatible). I don’t believe it’s generally desirable to trade very much efficiency for justice (though some amount is necessary to maintain the functioning necessary for meeting more people’s needs, and to increase overall life-satisfaction).
For cherry-picking, I think first-come-first-served is better than many other solutions, in that people who get more value from better fruit (mixed with those who have more flexibility/power) can pick what they’re willing to give up to arrive earlier. I think price discrimination (better cherries cost more) is pretty efficient as well, as it’s a signal to what quality of fruit the supply chain should pursue as well. Depending on grading and transaction costs (and customer acceptability), it can be more just AND efficient enough to go the other way: remove choice, sell cherries in opaque bags with a mix of quality. The efficiency tradeoff is an empirical decision—anyone can try something else and see how it works.
Fortunately (or un-), Moloch doesn’t care much about Justice, so in very competitive endeavors, efficiency tends to win.
It’s kind of standard practice in grocery stores to discount items that are of lower quality, or nearer to the end of their shelf life, no? In other words: whatever the price is, the store owner has already priced in the fact that the best quality will sell first, which at least partly compensates latecomers. And at least in the modern first world, there is generally enough produce that everyone who wants some can get good quality at market price.
Well yes there are methods of preventing the situation as described (that one can manually pick from a stash where various ‘qualities’ are intermixed) but that changes the circumstances; my example was specifically for that set of particulars. I guess that like most examples where significant differences in assessment arise, they all boil down to where you set the “slider” for taking responsibility for the situation one creates (eg. the seller allowing manual selection) and the degree to which one is willing, able or justified to “exploit” such a situation to ones’ benefit.
I think the cherry-picking example is an especially good one because it touches on a number of important issues, and each of those issues in itself is an unsettled question. Is it “just” to strive for an equitable division of fruit qualities among all (future) buyers? Will those buyers feel the same way about your idea of justice? Is it reasonable to negatively judge those who don’t “comply” with such a conception? Are such people immoral? Are they not in fact simply more assertive of what they see as their right to choose? None of these can be easily settled....