I think there were too few people wearing no-touching tags to make them work (well enough). At some point I freaked out and everyone who saw me in distress and wanted to help just hugged, patted and generally invaded me—ignoring the tag and the semi-obvious reason for freaking out.
What I do not agree is what you call the ironic status of those tags. I talked to some people about it and aside from straight “I want a lot of hugs” and “don’t touch me at all” there was also the opinion “I don’t feel comfortable being hugged (or touched), but I can hug some of the other people”—a middle ground, which didn’t have a separate tag and did not truly fit neither of the present tags. Given the generally cuddly atmosphere picking a “don’t hug me” tag was the sensible action (because not picking a tag would simply put you in the majority—“hug me” group).
I don’t know if having a new middle-ground tag would fix this problem. Maybe it would be ignored the same way that the “don’t touch me” tag was. Maybe it simply would work better if the group was more balanced. I caught myself several times looking at somebody’s tag to check if they will accept a hug and preparing my body for a hug before my brain processed the meaning of the pictogram—since almost everyone wanted hugs, this person must want them too, right?
a middle ground, which didn’t have a separate tag and did not truly fit neither of the present tags.
Perhaps “Please hug me,” “Please ask first,” and “Please don’t hug”? Not quite a solution, for reasons to be discussed shortly.
I don’t know if having a new middle-ground tag would fix this problem.
The underlying problem, I suspect, is the different desires for physical / social intimacy. So long as that exists, you’re going to have some level of awkwardness and deadweight loss, and the question is where it falls. Similarly, the underlying reason behind a ‘please ask first’ tag is that there are people you want to hug, and people you don’t want to hug, and oftentimes the people you don’t want to hug want to hug you. So even with a ‘please ask’ tag, they ask, and then you say no, and then there’s awkwardness, especially if you just hugged someone else, say, or want to hug someone else immediately afterwards. Perhaps it is enough to acknowledge the costs- having to check tags, having to ask, having to deal with rejection- as the price for when things do work out.
(One of my friends was in a theater group that would have cast parties after the show where, basically, everyone was assumed to consent to make out with anyone else- and she described the experience as “trying to catch the people you were interested in while trying to avoid the people you weren’t interested in,” which led to a large amount of circling around the room for a party.)
The underlying problem, I suspect, is the different desires for physical / social intimacy. So long as that exists, you’re going to have some level of awkwardness and deadweight loss, and the question is where it falls.
In general the solution to that problem is reading body language of other people. Hug people with body language that indicate they want to be hugged and don’t hug people with body language that doesn’t look like they want to be hugged.
For me having the tags lead to hugging certain people who I wouldn’t have hugged based on their body language and my whole calibration for when to initiate physical contact stopped working well.
Especially for those people whose position probably is: “I almost never hug anyone, so it’s a bit at the edge of my comfort zone. On the other hand I believe that the idea of hugging is beneficial and sort of nice.”
I still think the tag system if perfect for a gathering of rationalists who like to have clear rules of how to interact with one another.
I kind of assumed that given the existence of an explicit “no hugs” and an explicit “yay hugs” sticker, someone with neither would count as “please ask”. But apparently this wasn’t a universally shared assumption.
Possibly a middle ground is not actually needed- a “do not initiate physical contact” tag could serve the purposes of both people who do not want hugs at all, and people who are okay with hugs from certain people, but do not want others to initiate. Anyone can hug someone with a “do not initiate contact” tag with permission or the other person’s initiation, but nobody with such a tag is required to give either.
However, I think it’s probably preferable that both hugging and non-hugging people wear tags, rather than specifying only one. Even if one group is in the majority, I think that people in the other group are less likely to feel uncomfortable by marking themselves out with explicit signs if the other group is also wearing signs. Plus, it can help foster a standard etiquette of “examine tag before initiating hug.”
I think there were too few people wearing no-touching tags to make them work (well enough). At some point I freaked out and everyone who saw me in distress and wanted to help just hugged, patted and generally invaded me—ignoring the tag and the semi-obvious reason for freaking out.
What I do not agree is what you call the ironic status of those tags. I talked to some people about it and aside from straight “I want a lot of hugs” and “don’t touch me at all” there was also the opinion “I don’t feel comfortable being hugged (or touched), but I can hug some of the other people”—a middle ground, which didn’t have a separate tag and did not truly fit neither of the present tags. Given the generally cuddly atmosphere picking a “don’t hug me” tag was the sensible action (because not picking a tag would simply put you in the majority—“hug me” group).
I don’t know if having a new middle-ground tag would fix this problem. Maybe it would be ignored the same way that the “don’t touch me” tag was. Maybe it simply would work better if the group was more balanced. I caught myself several times looking at somebody’s tag to check if they will accept a hug and preparing my body for a hug before my brain processed the meaning of the pictogram—since almost everyone wanted hugs, this person must want them too, right?
Perhaps “Please hug me,” “Please ask first,” and “Please don’t hug”? Not quite a solution, for reasons to be discussed shortly.
The underlying problem, I suspect, is the different desires for physical / social intimacy. So long as that exists, you’re going to have some level of awkwardness and deadweight loss, and the question is where it falls. Similarly, the underlying reason behind a ‘please ask first’ tag is that there are people you want to hug, and people you don’t want to hug, and oftentimes the people you don’t want to hug want to hug you. So even with a ‘please ask’ tag, they ask, and then you say no, and then there’s awkwardness, especially if you just hugged someone else, say, or want to hug someone else immediately afterwards. Perhaps it is enough to acknowledge the costs- having to check tags, having to ask, having to deal with rejection- as the price for when things do work out.
(One of my friends was in a theater group that would have cast parties after the show where, basically, everyone was assumed to consent to make out with anyone else- and she described the experience as “trying to catch the people you were interested in while trying to avoid the people you weren’t interested in,” which led to a large amount of circling around the room for a party.)
In general the solution to that problem is reading body language of other people. Hug people with body language that indicate they want to be hugged and don’t hug people with body language that doesn’t look like they want to be hugged.
For me having the tags lead to hugging certain people who I wouldn’t have hugged based on their body language and my whole calibration for when to initiate physical contact stopped working well. Especially for those people whose position probably is: “I almost never hug anyone, so it’s a bit at the edge of my comfort zone. On the other hand I believe that the idea of hugging is beneficial and sort of nice.”
I still think the tag system if perfect for a gathering of rationalists who like to have clear rules of how to interact with one another.
I kind of assumed that given the existence of an explicit “no hugs” and an explicit “yay hugs” sticker, someone with neither would count as “please ask”. But apparently this wasn’t a universally shared assumption.
I would assume someone without a tag is operating under normal protocols, in which asking people to hug them is often weird.
But so is hugging strangers.
(And the “normal protocols” differ from place to place, so in an international meeting...)
Possibly a middle ground is not actually needed- a “do not initiate physical contact” tag could serve the purposes of both people who do not want hugs at all, and people who are okay with hugs from certain people, but do not want others to initiate. Anyone can hug someone with a “do not initiate contact” tag with permission or the other person’s initiation, but nobody with such a tag is required to give either.
However, I think it’s probably preferable that both hugging and non-hugging people wear tags, rather than specifying only one. Even if one group is in the majority, I think that people in the other group are less likely to feel uncomfortable by marking themselves out with explicit signs if the other group is also wearing signs. Plus, it can help foster a standard etiquette of “examine tag before initiating hug.”
Fair point. Apologies to anyone else wearing the no-hug tag.